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Friday Sober Thread: Tragedy in Connecticut

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by shimmered, Dec 14, 2012.

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  1. lust4life

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    The guns where registered under his Mother's name and were apparently obtained by her legally. According to his brother, he was "mentally ill" (one news report stated Asperger's and another said personality disorder, which I think is more likely). I'm not looking to "blame the victim" but if he had a history of mental issues, why have guns in the house that he obviously could access?
     
  2. CharlesJohnson

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    Schizophrenics aren't violent, only when provoked. My bet is some kind of Psychotic Disorder, Psychopathy, delusions. Probably an amalgamation of things. His fantasies go way beyond a schizophrenic's paranoia. A schizo will believe he's the emperor of Antarctica (like John Nash) and possibly, when confronted during a high episode, lash out at a person trying to confront him. Somebody like Lanza planned and methodically calculated full scale violence. A schizo does not have that mental acuity. During their episodes they barely remember to eat.

    I'd like to hear Dr. Rob's take.
     
  3. shimmered

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    I don't know.

    Quality values...who defines those?

    And, who's going to teach them?


    I have a whole mess of thoughts, but typing one armed is difficult and I'm heartsick and exhausted from today.
     
  4. mya

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    I don't know, from what I have seen schizophrenics can be very violent. You may have a point about the calculated part though. I am hardly a mental health expert.
     
  5. McSmallstuff

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    I'll just say this. If you or someone you know was affected by this tragedy or any similar event here or abroad my thoughts are with you. And if you suscribe to any sort of religion I hope from the bottom of my heart it is offering you solace.

    Here's to hoping that tragedies like this one bring us together as a people. Not just a nation, but a people. We're all flawed and we all need help sometimes. Maybe looking for a way to unite through our differences and to HELP those of us who are truly damaged would be a small step to ending senseless violence like this.

    There's a social debate of some sort here, but I don't think today is the day for it. Just my opinion.

    Juice I'm glad your friends mother seems to be doing ok physically.
     
  6. Nitwit

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    OK. I'll present this; published in 1902.

    http://jamesallen.wwwhubs.com/think.htm

    I realize that this represents what would seem an unattainable ideal and I, even though on TiB I mostly celebrate the depravity of my humanity, still gravitate or try to relatively aspire to the values described here during my day to day living.

    At any rate, this kind of terrible hasn't always happened; even though the technology to do it has been around for years. So I guess my question still remains.

     
  7. Crown Royal

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    The only schizophrenic I have ever seen that was violent was also an up-there Karate blackbelt. He was committed, and when Orderlies try tried to rush him in his room whenever he'd act up, he would throw concrete-shattering kicks that would stop an inch from their face to make them back off. Even when surrounded, six of them were NO match for this guy. And at six and a half feet tall, he may have been the most terrifying human being I've ever seen in person. However, he constantly refused his meds and was a trained killer so there are other factors involved.

    Other than that, they are usually fine as long as they are properly medicated. My wife's one friend from her work is a schizo (like her he's a stockbroker), we hang out with him now and then and he's just plain hilarious. You wouldn't know he was mentally ill, you would just think he was a short, rotund, non-stop-talking guy with absolutely NO filter whatsoever on his opinions. The worst thing my wife ever seen him do was a couple of unprovoked crying jags, hardly a big deal considering what people draw this illness out to be (thanks largely in part to stupid pop-culture digs on it).

    It's a mysterious illness, like Autism. It's literally impossible to determine, judge or write a conclusion on. Especially the poor bastards who basically live in a world of ghosts, with voices whispering in their ears and shouting orders at them, I don't fear those people. I feel incredibly sorry for them. Their life is a horror movie they can't turn off and half the time they are to poor or alone to get the help they need.
     
  8. RCGT

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    Judging by my Facebook feed, I think we can all look forward to some sane and not-at-all-reactionary legislation to come out of this.
     
  9. Pink Candy

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    In addition to the horrors the families of these murdered children must be going through, I can't imagine what this kid's family must be feeling as well. "Did we do enough? How did we not see this? Did we miss some symptoms? Should we have consulted more doctors?"

    Executing children...there's just no words. No explanations, no words, nothing. I can't find a way to fathom what the mindset is of someone that has to take out babies. I can't wrap my head around it without thinking humanity is doomed.

    And really, now is not the fucking time to be clogging my Facebook feed with your anti or pro gun rhetoric. Save it for tomorrow or another day. Someone said I should "consult her when enough people have died before I think there should be a discussion." Not in the mood for this bullshit.

    On a somewhat related topic, my chief came to my office today and said "We're taking you off gangs. Starting in January, you're in charge of the mental health field caseload."

    I'm really not lying when I say this new caseload absolutely terrifies me, especially after something like today. I have no experience in dealing with mental health issues and I sure as shit don't have any experience dealing with a paranoid schizophrenic that starts wigging out. What the hell am I supposed to do? Spray them? Shoot them? How the fuck am I going to talk them down? And then, I read about some psychopath going into a school and shooting kids...a 20 year old boy with supposed mental health issues. Fuck.

    Juice, I'm glad to hear everyone is okay in your neck of the woods.
     
  10. Danger Boy

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  11. sisterkathlouise

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    I'm having a really hard time wrapping my head around what happened today. I grieve for the friends and families who have lost someone today. I feel for the parents who have to see their children off to school and no longer can feel that their children are safe. And for the parents of children with mental health issues who can't get the help they need. I hope that this community (and the rest of the country) finds a way to come together to support those most affected by this horrific event.
     
  12. lhprop1

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    I left work early today to pick my son up from the babysitter and gave him the biggest hug I've ever given him. Sadly, there are 20 families in a small town in CT who will never have that joy again.
     
  13. Stealth

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  14. Juice

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    I wanted to give this some thought, but here's my view on it.

    I'm a gun owner, have been for a few years. But it is too easy for psychopaths in this country to get guns, plain and simple. The issue is a lack of gun control, but not with laws surrounding ownership.

    What, wait? Here's what I mean. There's a law in the US called the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, also known as HIPAA. It basically governs confidentiality around medical records by the healthcare provider and insurance company. This means that as part of a background check with the FBI to obtain a pistol permit or during the waiting period to purchase a rifle, any medical (read: psychiatric) records are off the table because of this law and other laws that strengthen it (MA Privacy, etc).

    Along with this, as many of others have said, there's a lack of discussion over mental health awareness as it's not as easy to address as a written law may be. Because of laws like HIPAA, there's little we can do about it as a society, because we hold privacy protection as paramount. Yet, the people we can't question, and we can't take action on, can legally buy firearms and act out their bizarre fantasies for whatever their motivation. There is a massive gap here that needs to be bridged, or we can expect this more of these awful things to happen.

    My last point is, I hate a straw man argument more than anything. But one thing that does come into the fold is sensationalism of violence, which is also a somewhat new phenomenon, at least on the scale it is now. Obviously violent video games, movies, music, and daily violent images in the news don't cause rampages. But I can't imagine that the constant barrage of violent imagery would not have influence over an unstable mind. Whether their goal is infamy, glory, or just plain mayhem, these things have not happened on such a scale until recently, and Im willing to be the explosion of media in the last 20 years has some (albeit indirect) hand in it.
     
  15. kuhjäger

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    My dad and I talked about this years ago, after Columbine and other well publicized mass shootings, and his theory is that while violent games like FPS don't and can't lead to violent situations, they can lead to more efficiency (to put it crudely) on the part of the shooter, especially if they have never actually had any military/police/private weapon training. This mainly applies to younger people especially, under 25 or so.

    He told me that when you look at at spree killings especially in younger people who had no access to guns there would be either a couple of victims with all the ammo pumped into them/at them or lots of woundings that suggested a spray and pray. Lets face it, back in the day, most people had no real idea when it came to shooting people how many bullets it really took to do it.

    But when you play shooter games, (my dad's favorite was an on the rails shooter game area 51) you learn the value of fast target acquisition and dispatch. Shoot at one mass, move to the next, shoot again, move to the next, shoot again with ensuring a kill ie pumping more rounds into them being a low priority.

    He said that when a younger person shoots someone (and he knows more about shooting people than most should know), what you see in movies, or episodes of Law and Order where the young person empties the magazine at the person they want to take their revenge on (like the guy who molested them) is actually fairly accurate because a lot of emotion is going into it.

    When you have a person who is emotionally detached from reality and has played a lot FPS games where it is aim at a mass, shoot at it, move to the next, and they are in a real situation, they are more efficient at hitting the target. In a situation like this, where they are kids and the bullet is more likely to be fatal, you have a higher body count.

    It is of course, just wild speculation from 13 or so years ago, but I can see there perhaps it being based in reality for why some people end up killing so many, and others only a couple of people.
     
  16. JC62

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    This tragedy happened less than 20 minutes from where I live. The principal of the school was originally from my town - she was a few years younger than I am.She lived down the street from where I currently live.
    Our daughters went to elementary school together, we worked together on the Parent's Association, we were friends...

    She sacrificed her life doing what she loved to do - taking care of and watching out for the best interests of children. Rest in Peace, Dawn.

    My heart aches for all of the families involved. There is no argument or debate; whether it be about gun control, mental health issues, or excessive access to violence that will make us understand what was going on in that young man's mind. There is nothing we can do to take away the pain and anguish that all of these families are going through.

    I suggest everyone take extra time to hug your children, nieces, nephews, loved ones and to keep all of these people in your thoughts and prayers.
     
  17. RCGT

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  18. kuhjäger

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    Did I offend you because you like Call of Duty?

    My apologies.
     
  19. Nom Chompsky

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    Easy guys.
     
  20. kuhjäger

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    The thing is dude, I am not blaming video games for being the motivation at all. Nowhere do I say that. Read it closely. Video games are just something millions of people play all over the world, every day without harm. I love FPS games when I am in a video game mood. Again, not responsible at all for any shooting ever, except for someone who maybe got mad their friend beat their high score.

    The whole conversation my dad and I had was whether a FPS game could in fact make a person who was already nuts, and already going to go on a rampage a more effective shooter by:

    1. Helping to further dehumanize the people they are shooting at. They already don't think of people as people if they can kill them so callously. (this is my thought. My dad already doesn't think of most people as human, so...)

    2. Helping them to acquire targets faster and shoot from person to person more methodically, ie not wasting a full mag of ammo on one person. Shoot, acquire new target, shoot, acquire new target. There aren't many places or ways to practice this in real life, so a simulated reality might be a good place to go.

    A good example of this I found is from the a madman, Brevik, who shot a shit load of people and is one of the few who actually survived that doctors have been able to try to understand. He played COD as practice for, guess what! Fast target acquisition. It didn't make him crazy, he already was crazy. But he is the one in a billion who used a video game for nefarious purposes.

    I jumped on RCGT because he didn't have anything to say, but I could guess that he likes video games and feels threatened because something he likes is being discussed around a tragedy. I clicked his profile and his most active posted topic is the Video Game Thread, so I imagine I was on the money there. It sucks when something you may enjoy gets brought up in a discussion after a tragedy like this. Gun lovers and video game lovers tend to bear the brunt of this.

    Again: Video games should not be banned. I never said that. They aren't responsible for driving a person crazy and make them think it is ok to kill people. Ever. No matter how violent or disgusting they may be they should never be banned (except for the ones that constantly demand money to make the playing experience better (So anything in any appstore))
     
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