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#FHRITP

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Angel_1756, May 13, 2015.

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  1. Nettdata

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    No, what I'm saying is that I'm "allowed" to question shit and have my own opinion without being told "you can't do that".

    And when people take advantage of situations for their own cause or benefit, like "dongle-gate" did, it has an impact on my decision making process, and tends to make me more cynical for others.
     
  2. Rush-O-Matic

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    This thread has been very informative. For instance, now I know that everyone dies when their head gets cut off.
     
  3. xrayvision

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    I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I was just using those as objective examples of actual sexual harassment where there is little to no room for interpretation. In a situation where people say something stupid, or gross or shocking to a reporter to ruin the shot and make it all weird, calling that sexual harassment is disingenuous. And there are millions of examples of people yelling shit to reporters over the years and no one called it sexual harassment. There is just so much agenda-driven social justice warrior garbage going on that the selective outrage machine founds it's asshole of the day.
     
  4. lostalldoubt86

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    From what I have read in this thread, the overwhelming response to calling it sexual harassment has been that this woman needs to learn how to take a joke, no matter how lame the joke is. While I agree that this isn't a criminal offense, I do see it as sexual harassment.

    In regards to the argument that it's not sexual harassment because women are doing it too, are you saying women can't sexually harass women? If you look at the definition, it doesn't say that same-sex harassment isn't a thing.
     
  5. Superfantastic

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    Because context matters. Guy aggressively yelling it to some random girl walking down the street -- total harassment. Drunk guys AND girls, mugging for the camera and yelling it into a microphone held by female AND male reporters -- a phrase that's caught on among idiots who enjoy fucking with reporters and telling their friends they got on the local news.

    Think we'd all agree that these dudebros are most definitely heterosexual, to the point where they'd have a panic attack if they were ever even perceived to be gay. So do you think they're saying it "to" male reporters because they want to harass them the same way guys catcall random women on the street, or are they mugging for the camera and trying to fuck with a reporter, regardless of the reporter's sex? Be honest.

    Absolutely they can. But do you honestly think that the women who say it to women are doing it because they want to harass another woman, or because some women can, like men, get drunk and act like idiots when there's a camera around, and fucking with reporters is kinda fun?
     
  6. Pinkcup

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    Hey, it totally sucks that your opinion on whether this is or is not harassment matters not a fucking whit when it comes to how this is perceived at large. You say it isn't, this woman says it is, I say it is, a few other women on this thread say it is, a couple of men in the thread say it is, a few thousand viewers say it is, this dude's employers say it is, and...oh wait. You get the picture.

    This thread is literally just a bunch of men trying to rationalize their way through this asshole's harassment and into some sort of explanation that ends up with "this bitch overreacted/needs to toughen up/this is just a symptom of PC culture gone awry/man, remember back when..."

    Seriously. Yeah, it's more of a gray area than your lecherous old boss massaging your shoulders and staring into your bra. But welcome to 2015, motherfuckers. Black and white sexual harassment should be universally accepted as fucked up by now. We've moved on to slightly less clear cut situations. That being said, it is pretty damn obvious that yelling aggressively about fucking anyone right in the <inappropriate word for female genitalia> while the recipient of said missive is uncomfortable is obvious harassment. Do you think it's okay to holler at women from a moving car? Is your standard of acceptable behavior "anything that falls short of legally-prosecutable harassment?"
     
    #86 Pinkcup, May 14, 2015
    Last edited: May 14, 2015
  7. Nettdata

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    Nobody here is condoning the behaviour. We're just explaining how it could happen, and how not everyone is labelling it "sexual harassment".

    First you say, "your opinion doesn't matter", and then say yours does.

    First you say, "it's more of a grey area", and in the next you say "it's pretty damn obvious this is", totally discounting that it's a grey area.

    Your basic stance is "you don't agree with me therefore you're wrong".


    "FUCK YOU". Is that sexual harassment, because I used an inappropriate word for coitus?
     
  8. Kampf Trinker

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    Let's not kid ourselves Pinkcup, you live to be that person.

    This post is everything I hate about feminism. It't not about progress or meaningful change. It's about slinging feces and crying victim at the slightest indescretion.

    Sorry, I don't want to live under your feminazi offended by everything bullshit. People can't make a meme now? I'm supposed to change because some woman-child might be offended?

    And yes, that's what is actually childish. Expecting everyone around to change their behavior because you're too fucking immature to handle even the slightest shift outside your comfort zone. Guess what? Nobody owes you shit, and being a woman doesn't entitle you to anything different than anyone else.

    Also, when people say this stuff it makes me wonder if they're completely naive and oblivious that regardless of gender we will all have things in our lives we don't want to have to deal with. I do too, yet somehow I don't jump up on a pedastal and start screaming for the world to change. Going through your daily life without throwing a fit over anything you could perhaps perceive as being offended is being mature, not the other way around.
     
  9. Pinkcup

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    Nope, "fuck you" is just regular 'ol harassment. But in the context of this dialogue? I don't consider it harassment, no. Probably because I've contributed to the conversational climate by dropping quite a few swear words myself. Now, if I'd been at work and attempting to conduct myself professionally and you'd approached me and shouted "FUCK YOU"....that would be a vastly different story.

    My opinion matters only insofar as my lived life experiences have direct bearing on whether or not this particular phrase has sexually harassing undertones. You say it isn't harassment, I say it is. Your opinion absolutely does matter, but it doesn't influence or determine fuckall except your own personal reading on the situation. And when your opinion runs contrary to the lives,experiences, and opinions of women who've been on the receiving end of similar statements and felt sexually harassed by said statements? Well...again, you're entitled to your opinion but I'm also entitled to tell you that your opinion, followed to its logical conclusion, leads to an environment where women feel unsafe, uncomfortable, and upset. So...yes. My opinion adds weight to the assertion that women do indeed feel uncomfortable and harassed by these comments and yours is just "nuh-uh, they shouldn't!" I guess that matters, to some people.

    And here's the thing--of course it's a gray area right now. At one point in time, a boss giving a "friendly" shoulder massage was a gray area, too! "But Pinkcup, he's just physically expressive! He's just showing he likes you! He's actually showing you more attention than his male employees...how can you call THAT sexist?! Honestly, aren't you overreacting? To a backrub?" Yeah...no. We're on a similar social precipice, I think. Ideally, this would already be a black-and-white issue. But folks like y'all still need convincing that this is fucked up, deserving of reproach, and sexually charged...even if you, personally, don't see it that way. Right now, it's gray (to you). I recognize that, and it's okay to lag behind on your understanding of these issues since its brand-new territory for you. But it's frustrating as all hell for women who've already clearly labeled this behavior as harassment to have to convince you to get on board with elevated standards of behavior.


    EDIT: Kampf, you astound me. I'm shifting you out of your comfort zone and you reacted with butthurt...which is precisely what you accuse me (and other women) of doing. Way to be completely self-aware, bro.
     
    #89 Pinkcup, May 14, 2015
    Last edited: May 14, 2015
  10. Nettdata

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    So... the fact that it happens when you're conducting yourself in a professional manner is what makes it "sexual" harassment?

    See, I find that absolutely, amazingly fucked up, and completely arbitrary on the part of the "victim".
     
  11. Pinkcup

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    How do you figure? This is a forum for "intelligent" and "depraved" discourse (or whatever, I can't remember that old slogan). Obviously, the dialogue standards here are different than when I'm just peacefully existing in a public space and I'm approached by a stranger. Or when I'm at work. It's a fairly basic human skill to understand "code switching" and different standards of acceptable behavior between situations. Are you saying you don't agree with this? Or you don't understand it?

    And for the record, you could, in the context of this board, sexually harass me. Dox me, plaster this forum with my nudes and home address, send me unsolicited dick pictures...you're smart and technologically-inclined, I'm sure there are several possibilities I'm not even thinking of.

    But since we're typing thousands of miles away and I know you (as much as I can know an online person) and you know me...I wouldn't take a "fuck you" personally. In fact, you can blow up my inbox with FYRITP and I wouldn't do more than roll my eyes. But, again, that's because it's in the context of this board. Kind of like how my boyfriend has unlimited access to fondle my ass, but I would be horrified if a strange man did so in the grocery store. Arbitrary? Sure, I guess?
     
    #91 Pinkcup, May 14, 2015
    Last edited: May 14, 2015
  12. Nettdata

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    So... when that reporter went to a public place where drunk guys were coming out of a soccer game, why did she not adapt to THEIR context, rules, and expectations of behaviour, rather than it be expected for them to adapt to hers?

    They were just out having a fun, drunk, rowdy time with their friends when she showed up. They didn't go to her place of business and talk shit, she went to their place of fun.
     
  13. MoreCowbell

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    The context both she and they are expected to adapt to is "act like decent, civilized human beings."

    Yelling FHRIHP at some poor woman who is just trying to do her job isn't really acceptable behavior anywhere outside of maybe a frat house.

    I'll defer on judging the severity of the situation, but one person in that interaction taking place in public was acting like a member of civil society, and others were not. So which one has failed to adapt?
     
  14. Nettdata

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    I agree. It was bad behaviour.

    I'm just curious about the arbitrary rules that seem to apply when it comes to making something sexual harassment as opposed to just plain old unacceptable behaviour.
     
  15. MoreCowbell

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    Probably somewhere around when you yell things that make a woman think she is suddenly surrounded by a drunken, boorish group of men inexplicably yelling strange sexual things at her. Regardless of how this particular reporter felt (because that really doesn't matter), a reasonable person could hypothetically feel menaced by such a situation.

    We're all "in on the joke" because it's a recognizable phrase to us. If we weren't, it would probably be bewildering and perhaps intimidating or menacing. Like if a seven foot tall man strolled by and told me he was going to fuck-start my throat with his dick, I'd feel unsafe even if it came from a viral video that I'd may or may not have seen.
     
    #95 MoreCowbell, May 14, 2015
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  16. Kampf Trinker

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    Yeah, you don't get to start slinging feces and call all the posters on here man children and then play this card. Sorry.

    Also, this time period where it was socially acceptable for a boss to walk around awkwardly rubbing all his female employees never happened.

    Then again, if your argument really is at this point 'You have an opinion but my opinion matters more because I'm special' like you said in your last few posts then this really is prety damn ridiculous.
     
  17. MoreCowbell

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    Do you actually reject the idea that in discussions of what does and does not qualify as a form of harassment, the opinions of those regularly subject to harassment should be given more weight than those not regularly subject to it? Because they're the ones who (1) have to actually deal with it a concrete sense, and (2) are familiar with what it is like?
     
  18. Kampf Trinker

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    Juice Edit: We're not getting into racism, take it to PM.
     
    #98 Kampf Trinker, May 14, 2015
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  19. MoreCowbell

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    You're allowed to say whatever you want, man. We all have keyboards, presumably we all paid our respective internet bills, we all have a username here. Outside of nett deciding to bring down the hammer, no one can stop us from typing. No one's throwing you in jail.

    That doesn't imply anyone has any social or moral obligation to take our words particularly seriously, or to not call us idiots or jerks. Everyone has the right to speak, more or less, but that doesn't translate to a right to be listened to or have our opinions respected.

    Whereas I'd suggest (perhaps you disagree) there is some inherent moral obligation to take somewhat seriously the words of potential or actual victims of harmful behavior so as to inform ourselves.

    As to your example, only limited inference can be drawn from things that don't really exist (pernicious, pervasive trodding upon the rights of men) with respect to those things that do actually exist in the real world. I could go on and on about the societal persecution of blondes but the reason that this isn't like sexism is that only one of those things actually happens. If blonde persecution was a real thing, yes, i'd expect my opinions to be taken more seriously than those of brunettes.
     
    #99 MoreCowbell, May 14, 2015
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  20. Jimmy James

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    Juice Edit: This adds nothing. Take it to PM.
     
    #100 Jimmy James, May 14, 2015
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