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Feminism

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Aetius, Feb 24, 2011.

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  1. Aetius

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    At the risk of... well a giant massive clusterfuck of epic proportions in which Netdaddy bans everyone who doesn't send him tit pics out of frustration, I'm opening a thread to house the now massive tangent from the maturing thread.

    Focus: Women, amirite?
     
  2. theillest

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    If you believe that women should have equal rights, opportunities and pay, then you my friend are indeed a feminist, as I am. The word has been so bastardized into this loaded clusterfuck by people who think feminists are only angry lesbians who hate men. It is actually an academic discipline that explores many aspects of human experience including gender, culture, economics and psychology.

    I know this is a boring post, but I felt I should state the obvious before the shit starts to fly.
     
  3. BL1Y

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    Does the 3:2 ratio of women in college count as equal, or more than equal?
     
  4. theillest

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    It means there are more women than men in college. There are many factors that go into this, feminism, as it is properly defined, has almost nothing to do with this. I would hazard a guess that there is discrimination against boys in the American school system, but when it comes down to it, girls get better grades.
     
  5. kuhjäger

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  6. BL1Y

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    So far as feminism is about granting women equal opportunities as men, it has a lot to do with college enrollment.

    And yes, girls do get better grades. But, the prevailing educational system is not the optimum one for boys. In single-sex schools, boys tend to have less disciplinary problems and engage in more extracurricular activities. But, I would imagine main stream feminists would balk at the idea of separate schools for boys and girls.
     
  7. theillest

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    A real feminist would advocate for the equal rights of boys in the education system if they are indeed being discriminated against. If boys learn better and get into less trouble in a single-sex setting, then a feminist would have no problem with it. Feminism generally advocates for the rights of those being discriminated against no matter who they are, men included.
     
  8. theillest

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    I should add the caveat that exposition to only ones' own sex as a child HAS to have some detrimental effects, although I have no background to say one way or another. If boys do better at school with only other boys, they would need some kind of socialization to girls regularly, I would imagine, but I'm no expert.

    Really, this is an educational issue, not a feminist issue though, and I think we're getting off focus a bit.
     
  9. Dcc001

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    Man, this is such a broad subject when you look at the whole picture - where to begin?

    My initial thoughts are that the developing world will not advance as a society (or societies) until they have a feminist revolution. If I dug around in my notes I could come up with three or four studies that show how educating women advances a people significantly within a single generation. Educated women will have an average of 2-3 children vs. 6-8 children, and those children will be better cared for.

    But that's the developing world. In the 'developed' world, I think it's a subject best left to academia; women are only as discriminated against as they allow themselves to be. I work in an uber-male dominated field. We recently hired another female designer, but prior to that, since I was hired in 2006, I have been the only female in the offices I've worked in besides our receptionists. This goes across the board - design, sales, fabrication, etc. I have never once felt discriminated against. I don't think I've ever been taken less seriously because of my gender by our customers, I don't think the guys in the shop view my designs any differently than the other male designers and if there is any difference in pay it's more to do with the sabbatical I took for almost two years and my unwillingness to enter into hard-nosed negotiation.

    Should women get equal everything? Yes, of course. That we do is presently enshrined in our legislation. It drives me crazy to hear certain women bitching about how life is harder for them because of their gender, though. As I said before: you get the respect you demand.
     
  10. Omegaham

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    I think the problem that we have right now is that moderate views are never paid attention to.

    "I think that women and men should have equal opportunities."
    "Yeah, sure, whatever."

    "WOMEN ARE OPPRESSED AND WE NEED DRASTIC ACTION RIGHT MEOW TO STOP IT!"
    "Whoa, she's yelling really loud! She must be saying something important!" (commence slamming of feminism)

    This is the case in pretty much every issue that gets debated, but it's especially pronounced in feminism. Sadly, if a view isn't sensationalist and extreme to the point of hilarity, it gets put on the back burner while everyone mocks the kooks. And then the moderates get tarred with the same brush. "Oh, she's a feminist. So was the last kook that stood up here. She must be a kook too."
     
  11. Pinkcup

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    Cosigned by this feminist. If the American co-educational system is truly discriminatory towards boys, that shit needs to stop. Yesterday.

    But I'm pretty sure that those results could be replicated in all countries- like, boys tend to learn better in same-sex environments no matter where those environments are located. I could be wrong, though...anyone want to search for some links? I also seem to recall reading something similar about girls.

    This may or may not also have something to do with college enrollment/male-to-female ratios:http://pandagon.net/index.php/site/comments/the_hermione_effect/. Food for thought.
     
  12. BL1Y

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    The feminist issue is how do we gauge equality.

    For instance, if we added "Lifting Heavy Objects Over Your Head" to the SAT, would this be an equality of opportunity issue, and if so, what does that mean about the current educational system?
     
  13. theillest

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    This is a major problem, and one I agree with wholeheartedly. I should point out just for posterity's sake that I am indeed a straight, male feminist. If you think that's weird, then you have a warped view of feminism.
     
  14. theillest

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    I agree, but a feminist would advocate for boys if they are being discriminated against. That is really my only point. If the system is set up to skew the line toward girls, a feminist would have a major issue with that, as others have stated.
     
  15. Kampf Trinker

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    Honestly I have zero problems with feminism, I just find it kind of pointless. Women complaining about all their discrimination just makes me roll my eyes. Granted those are the crazier minority, but at this point in western culture and politics I just don't see the need for a person to identify themselves as a feminist.

    I don't think more girls getting into college has anything to do with discrimination. It's just that in their youth guys tend to be more irresponsible. That accounts for most of the discrepancy. Simplistic, but true.
     
  16. RCGT

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    I'm an egalitarian. That doesn't make me a feminist.
     
  17. lostalldoubt86

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    I took a women's studies class in college where the professor was trying to replace the word "feminist" was "equalist" because of the negative connotations. The only thing I got out of this was a feeling of self-consciousness when referring to anyone as a feminist. The concept has lost most of it's meaning at this point. With the exception of being paid slightly less, I'm not sure what feminists are fighting for these days. I feel like we're all pretty equal.
     
  18. BL1Y

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    Would they?

    Not all feminists are the same. Many would shout down any advocacy for boys under the claim that the patriarchy is just trying to make this about men, and can't we please, for once, just help girls for a change?

    I agree that someone who truly believes in gender equity would advocate for boys as well as girls (with their fervor directed by the relative needs of the groups). But, what makes that the correct definition of feminist? What makes a pro-woman bigot not a feminist other than us having a higher ideal of feminism than they do?

    I think we agree on what feminism ought to be. Doesn't mean that's what it presently is. Though, I don't think it's a women's supremacy movement either. I think it's a bunch of disparate groups all with the same, confusing title.
     
  19. KIMaster

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    As an example of good feminism, I should mention an article I read a few years ago about a group of Russian feminists.

    What did their labors on behalf of women entail? Well, they gave away old computers to aspiring female programmers, and provided free programming classes to young women workers. What a novel idea!

    That is, they were actually helping other women by improving their education and job skills. Obviously, the feminist in Russia is in its infancy, and most likely, in a decade or two, will become as radical as it is presently here, but still!

    If all feminists actually went out there and got their hands dirty by tangibly helping other women, (and sorry, frivolous lawsuits don't count) I would have nothing but praise for their efforts.

    I don't even care if they are in fact favoring women over men.

    As long as they are doing good, instead of spreading hate and ignorance (including a hatred and dismissal of science), their efforts are a positive for society.
     
  20. LessTalk MoreStab

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    All the hard-line feminists I’ve met have been pretty hopeless arrangements who cling to a cause to give themselves personal meaning.

    My social group is 40% female, all are smart professional woman who I’ve never heard complain about being discriminated against. Most of these whining bitter feminists occupy ground that is completely nondiscriminatory of either sex, religion or race; that of being a useless piece of shit with an entitlement complex.
     
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