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Fantasy Football, but better because BOOKS

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Pinkcup, Jan 22, 2013.

  1. Pinkcup

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    The Guardian has compiled a list of 32 authors to compete in a bracketed tournament for the title of Greatest American Author.

    Normally, this sort of thing really appeals to me. Well-read, intelligent people passionately discussing the merits and demerits of various authors in a fantasy sports team format which will eventually allow one or two authors to float above the rest and battle for the title? My bookworm boner is poking through my pants right now.

    But the competition has a few rules which I strongly disagree with:

    1.Each author must've written at least four novels in order to be included. This unfairly eliminates Harper Lee and David Foster Wallace and Dan Brown (I kid, I kid...), authors who didn't need to prove their mettle with four pieces of work because one or two were more than enough for everyone to recognize their genius and talent.

    2. Only American authors are being considered.I understand that restricting the pool to American authors was kind of the entire point of their bracket system, but I think this is yet another case of British people overlooking the vast amount of beautiful literature that comes out of Canada and Mexico. Diego Rivera, Margaret Atwood, Carlos Fuentes...they deserve to compete. I think Great NORTH American Novelists would be a more interesting tournament. Besides, the whole "best American writer" thing is overplayed. Been there, read that, blah blah.

    3. They're only considering books and authors who've written within the past 100 years. Again, I understand that you have to have a cutoff point in order to keep the crowned author relevant to today's standards of excellence, but I think it's unnecessarily arbitrary.

    Focus:TiB, we can do better.

    Throw out suggestions for the Official TIB Great North American Novelist Tournament. Name your author, relevant novels (fiction only, unless you can convince us otherwise), and articulate reasons for why your picks are the best. Mods, once we have enough names for a bracketed tournament, will y'all pretty-please set one up and let everyone vote?
     
  2. Nom Chompsky

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    Hey, guess what?

    I got a reasonable, polite request to have this thread bumped (from somebody other than PinkCup), and I'm a stone cold sucker for that kind of thing.

    Bumpity.
     
  3. NotaPharmacist

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    I like the Fuentes choice. I'd add Garcia Marquez, definitely, thanks to the General in His Labyrinth and Chronicle of a Death Foretold (which I've read).

    Also, Tom Clancy. Anyone who can still sell books that are mad libs filled in with military hardware manuals and make money has to be doing something right (The Bear and the Dragon, Rainbow Six, Politika, etc.)

    Wasn't River a painter? I tried to find books of his, it appears they just included him because of his illustrations or copyright issues.
     
  4. CharlesJohnson

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    John Steinbeck. Hands down. Apotheosis of the American Writer. Not only did he immortalize the downtrodden of The Great Depression, but he left a, albeit fictionalized, historical account with Grapes of Wrath. The Nobel Prize agrees. And the National Book Award. And The Pulitzer.

    Secondly, with East of Eden he evoked an indefatigable amount of emotion concerning love, familial bonds, sibling rivalry, self loathing. This was not melodrama either, but a true, inimitably precise vision of human nature. Books like those two do not come along very often.

    Then, there is Of Mice and Men. Name a highschool that doesn't have this as required reading. It has also been adapted to film and stage. Productions still run today.

    Plus the man was nominated for three Academy Awards for Best Screenplay.
     
  5. FreeCorps

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    I'm going to nerd out on you people. Surprise!

    Robert Jordan:

    Yes, I know all the complaints about the latter parts of the Wheel of Time. The books seemed to meander on, especially Crossroads of Twilight, and the characters all seemed to become brainless loobies who just wanted to fall in love with someone, but the first 5 books are as gripping as any written. Plus, although it can be lumped in as a complaint, his attention to detail was amazing. He tied up every plot line and foretelling.

    Margaret Weis/Tracy Hickman:

    I'm going to add them as a duo because of the work that puts them on a list for me. The Death Gate Cycle. Well, the first four books anyway. Even though they had an overarching storyline, they each stood on their own as they told the tale of a different world. There were some genuinely sad moments, and some surprising plot twists. Too bad for them that the last three books get a bit...hamfisted.

    George R.R. Martin:

    I don't really feel like I need to list the man's merits on this board.

    Dan Abnett:

    He's more well known as a comic book writer, but he is also an accomplished novelist. My experience with him begins and ends in the Warhammer 40,000 universe, but read Horus Rising and try telling me the man can't write.

    C.S. Friedman:

    I include her in my list because of the Coldfire Trilogy. She depicts a world where your very thoughts can kill you, the church is necessary (if only because faith and thoughts can affect the planet), plus she brings to life one of my favorite all time anti-heroes in Gerald Tarrant.

    This is off the top of my head. I'm sure I can come up with more once I look over my paperbacks.
     
  6. Crown Royal

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    Thomas Pynchon. His novels are so dense and dazzlingly complex it's ard to believe that they came from a single mind. He wrote Gravity's Rainbow which is my favourite book.

    H.P. Lovecraft is my favourite of all horror authors, and writes bone-chilling sci-fi/horror novellas. Works include The Dunwich Horror, From Beyond, The Tomb, Dagon, The Call of Cthulhu and At The Mountains of Madness. All amazing.
     
  7. Pinkcup

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    I think I'm going to have to politely disagree with George R.R. Martin, FreeCorps. I'm not familiar with the other authors you posted, but Martin (while a completely kickass writer in his own genre) is too entrenched in a specific niche to be truly great.

    I also disagree with Tom Clancy's inclusion, but only because I find him pedestrian and I am a nasty book snob. He sells well and his books are pretty entertaining, but I wouldn't consider those two qualities to determine "greatness."
     
  8. Pinkcup

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    My first pick is:

    -Margaret Atwood. The Handmaid's Tale is practically canon by now, but Penelopiad and The Robber Bride are equally amazing. For those who require more of a sci-if bent to their reading, Oryx and Crake and its companion, The Year of the Flood, are fantastic. She gets pigeonholed as a feminist writer, but I sincerely believe she crafts stories that everyone can enjoy regardless of their ideology.

    Choice selections that qualify her for inclusion (in my opinion):

    Any naysayers?
     
  9. ghettoastronaut

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    Wajdi Mouawad.

    Go ahead. Disagree with me. If you can.

    I also disagree with Margaret Atwood on the basis that she is a massive douchebag.
     
  10. Nom Chompsky

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    Cormac McCarthy.

    Blood Meridian, The Road, No Country for Old Men...

    My reasoning:

     
  11. Pinkcup

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    We're not including authors based on their humanitarian efforts or politically correct stances on Israel's defense policies. Only on works of literature produced. She is allowed to be a douchebag, as is Faulkner (who, while most definitely a douchebag, also deserves to be included in the tournament).

    As for Wajdi Mouawad, I am not at all familiar with his novels. In fact, I am only marginally familiar with his plays. But if you feel he should be included, make your case and then we'll include him.
     
  12. Aetius

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    #12 Aetius, Jan 23, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2015
  13. ghettoastronaut

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    She's a massive douchebag with or without her opinions on Israel or her humanitarian efforts (of which I know nothing). A few years ago she jumped on this ridiculous remote-signature thing whereby she could be at one place, write her signature on an electronic sensing pad, and remotely, a machine could (very poorly) replicate her pen-strokes so as to sign something (i.e. a book) that a fan had bought. It was going to revolutionize things. Even though she was basically having a robot put scribbles into the book of a fan who was hoping for a signature. A friend of mine went to see her speak at the University of Toronto. The friend was otherwise a fan and was thoroughly disgusted by her obnoxiousness. But, hey, yeah, I was totally talking about her opinions on Israel's defence policies.

    As for Mouawad, well, I've read his plays as if they were novels (if you can find a copy, I highly suggest picking one up). I know that kind of breaks the rules. It also breaks the rules in the sense he was born in Lebanon and writes in fancy Metropolitan French instead of lowly Canadian French, but if we're having a contest about being mean book snobs...

    Don't believe those who say "there aren't enough words...". To the contrary. When we have nothing else, we still have words; if we begin to say that there are no more words, then all truly is lost. Search, even if you cannot find them.

    There's more I'd like to type out but it's a bit late for me to be typing out pages of pages of text and then translating them. Brevity is the soul of wit but a proper story takes time to develop. The copies of his plays I have come with some academic analysis at the end, and understanding the depth of the stories and where the inspirations come from really make them more than just plays or just lines of dialogue back and forth. And, for that matter, while I had previous found plays otherwise rather stale - austere, even - in their written form (see: Rex, Oedipus the and Shakespeare, William) that were more suitable for academic study in a classroom than enjoyable reading, for some reason, his plays read like novels. All you really need to understand the story are what the characters say back and forth; narration would, in a way, detract from the feel of the thing.
     
  14. RCGT

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    Robert Heinlein. Stranger in a Strange Land, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress. Starship Troopers is still on the required reading lists of both the U.S. Navy and Marines. Sci-fi that tried to reach beyond the conventions of the genre.

    Kurt Vonnegut. Slaughterhouse Five, Cat's Cradle, "Harrison Bergeron," etc. Mixed sci-fi elements with biting social commentary. Even when he got rambly (Timequake), he was never uninteresting.

    Ernest Hemingway. He could make it on this list for The Old Man and the Sea alone. Spare prose, but very powerful.

    Stephen King. He's just written way too many (good) books to not be considered. My favorite work of his is probably The Green Mile.

    Isaac Asimov. Wikipedia considers him an American author, so I will too. Created the "Three Laws of Robotics," coined the term "robotics" in the first place. One of the most prolific sci-fi authors ever.

    Mark Twain. Possibly the most American American to ever live. Huckleberry Finn is the obvious classic, though anything he's ever written is inherently quotable.

    Jack London (The Call of the Wild, White Fang). He really captured the individualism and wilderness at the heart of America.

    Tennessee Williams. Yeah, he's a playwright, but his stuff seems to work equally well on the stage, as text, or in film. I love Cat on a Hot Tin Roof for capturing the "quiet desperation" of the characters, and the Paul Newman adaptation ain't half bad.

    I tried to avoid playwrights, poets, and essayists, but if someone else wants to argue for Thoreau, Whitman, Kerouac, et al., go for it.
     
  15. ssycko

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    Wait, are we doing American or anybody? Either way, Vonnegut has been mentioned, and so has King, so-

    Joseph Heller. Because
    [​IMG]
     
  16. Pinkcup

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    This is all very interesting (especially the part about her arthritis workaround) but ultimately irrelevant. As I stated before, we're basing her inclusion (or exclusion, but I haven't seen you make a decent case against her yet) on her work.

    But if it were up to me, I would exclude her from any TiB dinner parties solely because of her stance on Israeli defense. I try not to dine with douchebags.

    It does indeed break the stated rules. But since this thread was inspired by my desire to break the rules set forth in the original tournament, I am open to allowing this playwright to compete. It all depends on other other participants, however. Other TiBbers: what do you think? Should Mouawad be permitted?

    Where the author was born is immaterial to his or her inclusion in the competition. In the original article I linked, there is a great discussion about Nabokov that addresses this very issue. Check it out!

    Did you start a new thread for this? If not, you're the only one competing.
     
  17. AlmostGaunt

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    Patrick Rothfuss. The fantasy genre is swamped with every permutation (or straight up clone) of the basic rags to riches, reluctant hero, orphan-to-wizard conceit. (And most of them do it a damn sight worse than Feist.) 2 out of every 3 books I pick up make me wince because the plot arc is more of a straight line of cliches. In the Name of the Wind reinvigorated the entire genre for me. More than that, though, it's the only 'genre fiction' (how I loathe that term) book I'm aware of written in a capital L Literature style. Not in a pretentious way, but in a 'holy shit this dude can write' way.

    Robin Hobb. Someone asked me a while ago why I read fiction. After I finished wondering whether it was still worth my time to continue trying to sleep with her, I thought about it and the answer I came to was that the best fiction teaches us something about ourselves. (Using lies to tell truth, if you will, although I can't remember where to attribute that quote). The Tawney Man series is perhaps the most 'human' series I've ever read. One of the very few times I've ever felt sorrow for a fictional character.

    Lee Child. The hands-down master of action books. He's released what, 10+ Reacher novels now, and they are all top notch action thrillers. Except the most recent, which is even better than that. Granted he's never going to win a competition like this, but while elaborate metaphors and symbolism are great things, sometimes you just want to read about a man doing brutal violence in a good cause.

    I'll second Stephen King. His ability to make you care about characters defies description, and his books are incredibly accessible. I could mount a semi-reasonable argument that he is responsible for getting more people, kids and adults, to enjoy reading than any other living author.
     
  18. audreymonroe

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    The most powerful cervix... in the world...

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    I read much more nonfiction than fiction, but these would be my choices:

    Jonathan Safran Foer: Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close, Everything is Illuminated
    -I can get the argument against him that his writing is too gimmicky, but I personally find it interesting and innovative, and I think it actually makes an additional impact. I think his writing's beautiful and his stories are poignant. I read ELIC every year, and I still weep like a baby for the last hundred pages or so every goddamn time.

    Michael Chabon: The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay
    -This is the only book of his that I've read but it is tied with ELIC for being my favorite novel. The story was incredible and I love his voice. I think he has an amazing ability to write poetically but still accessibly. Reading him doesn't feel like a chore. This book reaffirmed why I love to write. I actually hugged it once it was over.

    E.L Doctorow: Ragtime, World's Fair
    -This guy has mastered the art of historical fiction, and seems to love the same parts of history that I do. He is amazing at capturing time and place.

    Margaret Atwood: The Handmaid's Tale, Cat's Eye
    -I also like her poetry. She's already been discussed and I like her for pretty much the same reasons. But, for what it's worth, I don't consider her to be an asshole.

    Joyce Carol Oates: You Must Remember This, We Were the Mulvaneys, Blonde,
    -I think she's the female Stephen King; I have the same relationship with her and opinion of her as guys seem to have with King. Bitch can tell a tale. I also have a soft spot for her because she was the first author I ever studied in depth on a big-kid scale for my AP Lit class in high school.

    Ian McEwan: Atonement, The Cement Garden, Saturday
    -Beautiful writing, great stories, love his weirdo dark twisted mind

    John Irving: The Cider House Rules, The World According to Garp, A Prayer For Owen Meany
    -Original storytelling, beautiful language
     
  19. downndirty

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    I will supplement a vote for Stephen King.

    One of the best selling authors of all time, across a stupid variety of genres. Also, imagine the impact he's had on US culture. The Shining? The Green Mile? The Stand? It? Shawshank Redemption? Dude even wrote X-men comics for a while, and was featured in Sons of Anarchy. No other author has had the success he's had across such a wide variety of genres: western, horror, suspense, adventure, crime, historical drama, you name it.
     
  20. AbsentMindedProf

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    Jeez, I thought I liked reading more than most people. You guys put me to shame. However, I do think the Haruki Murakami should be added to the list. The Wind Up Bird Chronicle was just amazing. I'll try to look up some passages from it when I get home. I love this thread by the way. I'm going to have an awesome reading list by the end of it.