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Elephants and Jackasses...

Discussion in 'Permanent Threads' started by Nettdata, Oct 14, 2016.

  1. Aetius

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    But he is wrong about them. Whatever criticisms the media deserves, they aren't the ones he's making.
     
  2. Kampf Trinker

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    Take either or, it's not really looking like it will affect the election outcome at this moment. That's my point.
     
  3. Tuesday

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    I feel like the economy was the last meaningful factor for his re-election chances, and now that's obviously not looking great. Will his base continue to support him as enthusiastically after getting laid off? How many people voted for him in 2016 looking for change from the political machine and are unhappy with the change Trump brought?
     
  4. Kubla Kahn

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    I mean, the traditional wisdom about the economy and relelection? Or a once in a century virus that the whole fucking world had to come to a halt for? Be hard to blame the whole mess on him... The real thing to watch is how much the dynamic changes for government intervention for the right side of the political spectrum and how much Biden can counterpoint the huge government spending planned. We are in for quite the wild ride this year.
     
  5. Tuesday

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    Does average Joe Voter care why though? Regardless of their influence, presidents get the credit and blame for the economy. And the information about the proposed stimulus doesn't look particularly favorable to the rust belt/blue collar demographic.
     
  6. Kampf Trinker

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    If the reasons were more obscure maybe blaming Trump would work, but under these circumstances it's just going to look like partisan bullshit because that's what it is. They can make a case that his response is/was bad, but acting like he caused it is just going to look stupid.

    This whole blame Trump for everything mentality is part of the reason it falls on deaf ears when it's actually merited.

    The presidential debates on these topics are going to be a shit show for the ages.
     
  7. ODEN

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    Why isn't blame being put where it belongs? China buried this thing for a few months. This whole thing could have potentially been contained without leaving Asia.

    The World isn't going to lose sight of that and I would imagine in the coming months, the response to China and how to avoid reliance on China is going to be front and center and one of the main debate points moving forward.
     
  8. downndirty

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    Literally dozens of countries are mounting an effective response, we have fucked this up from the start. The administration has to shoulder the lion's share of the blame for that. I've had staff operating inside the response for the last few weeks, and the WH task force is responsible for the poor quality, poor distribution and ineffective information provided to the public thus far. Make no mistake: people are dying because this administration chose to ignore the threat in favor of protecting the economy and their re-election chances. We wasted precious time, and are continuing to waste time and the American public is paying the price.

    I agree, the interruption of the Chinese supply chain is causing some major re-evaluation, especially of critical manufacturing. From my CDC buddy, once the Coronavirus numbers started to go public, they simply stopped communicating with their counterparts. The Chinese government silenced them, after 30 years of effective partnership on public health.

    This is, in my humble opinion, a much-needed shattering of faith in China as a trading partner.
     
  9. ODEN

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    What have we gotten right in the past? Did we get Katrina right? Did we get Sandy right? Those were localized. This is worldwide.

    The Government is synonymous with being fucked up as a two dollar watch.....this isn't shocking anyone with basic recall right now. You work for the Government, clearly, and you won't want to hear this but most people have no faith in your organization, the FDA, CDC and every other alphabet outfit to begin with and have little expectation that you will be there when needed. Trump didn't cause that, bureaucracy has been a problem for a long time. He didn't hire career members of organizations, career planners for these things; besides, Trump would eat no limit of shit for firing those folks and starting over at any point in time. There is no winning this from a political standpoint but that seems to be what everyone is doing here is playing politics.

    Stop playing pretend. If any of you had a winning record coming into this then I may feel differently. Right now, it sounds like nothing more than political whining.
     
    #12349 ODEN, Mar 21, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2020
  10. Kampf Trinker

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    Yeah, I read one news source whining about how Trump hasn't restricted travel. The very next day he does it and they start whining about how the travel restrictions are causing confusion. It's just a bitch no matter what mentality at this point. 90% of the time I don't even see any actual criticism, it's just howling into the wind. I don't see how we are faring so much better or worse than the rest of the first world other than people just acting like we are. More often than not the complaints are just random shit like CDC cuts that never even happened, or widespread attacks on asians that also never happened.
     
  11. Juice

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    Europe is already losing sight of it. Nevermind that the EU essentially stood by for a few weeks and watched Italy and now Spain crumble, now they are looking to China to save them while the US focuses on ensuring continued commerce with Canada and Mexico. Europe is not going to like where that road leads, but they should know that since they already traveled it with Russia.

    It depends on what we're considering favorable here. Sure, the big banks deserve scrutiny to use some of the bailout money to pay bonuses. Executives should be jailed for that. But the banks need to be bailed out because if they dont, credit stops flowing and a depression begins. So for some rust belt farmer, he may need a small business loan to keep things going on his end. Depending on perspective, that may be more valuable to him than a $1000 check.
     
  12. downndirty

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    I don't "work for the government", I serve my country, with pride and distinction.

    Winning record? On pandemic response?
    https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/basics/past-pandemics.html

    How many people you know died from SARS? MERS? Measles still running rampant where you are? How about polio? Anyone's whooping cough acting up? Amazing how the worst pandemic in my lifetime is HIV/AIDS, also bungled by a Republican response.

    You want to talk about Hurricane response? Please enlighten me, with your knowledge of how to correct the mistakes from Sandy and Katrina. Perhaps it looks like legislation called Post-Katrina Emergency Management Reform Act? Or the Sandy Recovery Improvement Act? Elucidate on the post-DRRA environment and how inefficient we all are. Tell me how bad the 2019 hurricane season was, with new laws, new teams and a more coordinated approach. Show me how shit in the Bahamas is doing after Dorian and compare it to how communities are doing after Harvey, Irma, Florence and Michael. Check in on Tennessee, after a tornado: for some reason the entire state of TN can't come up with housing for 250 displaced individuals and needs federal assistance.

    You want to know the secret: NO SHIT. I don't need your faith, and in our operations we spend literally billions of dollars to ensure most people do NOT rely on the federal government for help (Google "FEMA mitigation" "NFIP" to start). We are the last line of assistance, only called in when the states are overwhelmed. We are not the best at emergency response, we are the last ones brought in. So literally, every time we fuck something up (which we do, all the time), by the simple fact we are asked to be there means there was no one else that could have done any better. No, you should not have faith that I'll be there when needed. That's what your local organizations are for. "We are not 911"-quoting our former Administrator.

    Please, lecture me about bureaucracy as I sit with my staff embedded in 8 agencies, reporting to HHS and the White House task force. I'd love to hear more of your wisdom. I know this, because I've lived it. And yet, somehow we put men on the moon, we defend our country, we enforce our rights and protect our citizens like no other nation on earth.

    So, it's almost like....you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

    I agree with you: people are playing politics. However it's costing lives. That's the issue I have right now. We blew our containment window, while our president was calling this a hoax. Now hundreds are dead, thousands are infected, and this administration is literally inventing new ways to fuck up a response, wasting precious time and flagrantly wasting resources. Literally, they are telling the folks whose job it is to prevent the spread of pandemics: "we are more concerned with the economic fallout of advanced quarantine and shelter in place measures, and have doubts on the ability of those measures to contain the spread."
     
  13. Revengeofthenerds

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    This. We shouldn't rely on emergency services like FEMA because we should use common sense, and prepare ourselves. Local communities are doing great at responding to the individual needs of those they serve with courage and honor. What people don't understand is that YOU are your own first responder. I know this, because I have literally saved lives, on multiple occasions, by acting as such before EMS was able to get on scene. We can play politics that later when we vote. Also, thank you @downndirty for serving our country.

    Also on cue, this was just released where Trump was warned about this back in january. His own hubris has now killed Americans and severely disrupted our daily lives. Can we lay this to rest and just move forward with figuring out how we're going to recover from this? The facts are out there. And that's why he's going to be drastically impacted at the voting booth. Never mind that a lot of his base will be dead by the time to vote comes around.
     
  14. Crown Royal

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    To be clear: Trump pawned off the virus, called it a hoax, it’s spreading rapidly in America and yes, that gets laid at his feet, because he’s the fucking President. Those are all facts. Many death are and WILL BE his fault. So maybe just cut the passive-aggressive defensive of the pathologically lying idiot, his presidency is a failure and he is a failure. If this response doesn’t prove it to you then you’re beyond any reason.
     
  15. Kampf Trinker

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    Dude, what are you talking about it? I'm sorry, what country totally contained it from their borders? Where did this happen? Why are acting as if this was a feasible objective?

    And Trump never called it a hoax as if it didn't exist. Why are you guys pretending this? Sorry, but Oden is right. You guys sound like you're bitching just to bitch.
     
  16. Nettdata

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    He literally said "it's nothing to worry about, it's just like the flu, you can go home and sleep it off".
     
  17. Nettdata

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  18. Kampf Trinker

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    Yes, I know he said a few stupid things early on. Is that what all the bitching is about??? Ok then, I guess I don't care as much about that as you guys do. I don't see how the response is so different than the rest of the world outside of that. It doesn't seem like we are being hit way harder. Cases are going up, but they are going up everywhere, not just here.
     
  19. xrayvision

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  20. Kampf Trinker

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