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Elephants and Jackasses...

Discussion in 'Permanent Threads' started by Nettdata, Oct 14, 2016.

  1. Rush-O-Matic

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    And, you think the providers of this emergency care will be just fine with their revenue stream getting smaller? Or insurance companies?
     
  2. scotchcrotch

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    Preventative care and universal care are not mutually exclusive.
     
  3. Kubla Kahn

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    You're right the government will run this efficiently, no way they can fuck up massive government bureaucracy riiiiiiight. I think the average on actual price vs promised price historically has been 7x larger than the officials running for election have promised. Climate change is a lot less fantasy than universal healthcare.
     
  4. Aetius

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    1. Why would I give a shit about people who hypothetically profit less from people being healthier and requiring less emergency care. They can cry about it at their annual shareholders meeting.
    2. Most of them would likely be happy anyway, since emergency care is most abused by people who cannot pay, which leaves the hospital, patients who can pay, or the taxpayer to foot the bill. If these people are healthier, and everyone else saves money, I don't see anyone standing to lose here.
     
  5. Aetius

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    I arguing the opposite, that they are mutually inclusive. If you do not have universal coverage, there will be people who should be getting preventative care who will not, because they cannot afford it.
     
  6. Aetius

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    There are literally dozens of first world countries whose systems we could look to and adopt in whole or in part. I'm totally fine with crunching the numbers and spreading the sheets and making a sober decision about the best ideas to implement. What I don't want to see is Republicans using this "the Democrats want to give healthcare to illegals, so you should die broke to spite them" nonsense to try to win elections, which was my original point.
     
  7. scotchcrotch

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    And people incentivized to enter this country
     
  8. Aetius

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    The incentives to enter this country are already so massive I don't see this moving the needle at all.
     
  9. scotchcrotch

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    So having your life saved takes backseat to other incentives? Cmon now.
     
  10. Revengeofthenerds

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    Leaving neighborhoods essentially run by drug cartels in Mexico would be one incentive to come here that ranks higher than a hypothetical “free” healthcare system.

    When better healthcare involves leaving your immediate environment because living literally anywhere else increases your chance of survival, I’d say that’s a good incentive.

    That being said, I’m not a fan of the whole idea of universal healthcare on the primary basis that I don’t believe the people who take the most from the system will contribute to it in an equal and fair manner.
     
  11. scotchcrotch

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    Contrary to popular belief cartels don’t go around terrorizing randoms for fun. If you’re not running a business or engaging in high volume commerce, you’re not as much at risk.
     
  12. Revengeofthenerds

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    Not so much terrorizing, but rather a lack of giving a shit on there part where their bullets end up. Gotta take someone out and he's standing in front of a house? Freddie's house is getting shot up today. I know people who have moved out of those situations (specifically in mexico and venezuela) and the way they describe it makes the rough parts of detroit and chicago sound like a good comp.

    Every place has their good parts and bad parts though, so I don't want anyone to construe this as one of those "shithole countries" kinda deals.
     
  13. Kubla Kahn

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    Watch some of those cartel videos on liveleak, feels like they're trying to terrorize the local populations into not interfere with them.
     
  14. Kampf Trinker

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    My problem with the argument that universal healthcare is too expensive and the government will make it too expensive is this-

    [​IMG]

    It's a terribly unconvincing argument when we're spending astronomically more than everyone else.

    That chart is from 2010, but pretty much nothing has changed. As of more recently, Canada spends 10.5% of their GDP to our 17%+. We suck so much at managing healthcare efficiently we're an outlier all by ourselves, minus one tiny island nation. Not to mention a lot of these countries are getting better results for spending barely over half of what we do.

    There are many markets where the government running it turns it into an inefficient disaster. Healthcare isn't one of them, or if it is, it already does much worse on its own.
     
  15. scotchcrotch

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    It’s intimidation tactics to keep witnesses from snitching. Cartels are a business, just highly illegal.
     
  16. Aetius

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    Let's be honest, the biggest drag on the system is going to be older obese Southerners who use dialysis to replace their blood with sweet tea.
     
  17. Revengeofthenerds

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    I believe you are correct about that, with one change: obese southerners is not limited to older people.

    Source: am a southerner
     
  18. Rush-O-Matic

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    I certainly believe you don't give a shit about that. And, I appreciate your perspective. However, in the last 10 years, all of the rising costs have been passed on to me. My deductible has gone from $500 to $5000, so I can afford the premiums that are three times what they were before all the healthcare "reform" was put in place. You can make any argument you want about new reforms, and there isn't anyway you'll convince me that my costs won't go up.
     
  19. Danger Boy

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    Can we quit using Obamacare as a valid example of socialized healthcare? If you must, at least call it what it really is; Romneycare.
     
  20. xrayvision

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    Rural healthcare is a serious problem in our country. It just doesn’t exist and when it does, it’s awful. It doesn’t help that the people eat nothing but carnival food as their regular diet.

    I went to Arkansas a couple of years ago to see that big bullshit diamond mine. Stayed in the town where it’s located. They have 6 restaurants that all serve variations of the same deep fried shit. The people were super nice but big as houses. Bigger towns like Hot Springs(which is a great place btw) saw more diversity and younger healthier folks.
    But overall, it’s a freak show.