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Elephants and Jackasses...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Nettdata, Oct 14, 2016.

  1. Danger Boy

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    It's pretty bad when Tucker Carlson is the only one telling the truth about Julian Assange. I couldn't find the original clip, but here's one of jimmy Dore breaking it down.



    Say what you want about the guy, but what he did wasn't illegal. The fact that he got arrested should bother everybody.
     
  2. Kubla Kahn

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    Maybe it's just the make up of this board but the more conservative sites I frequent have the same standards shown at the right side of the isle. The Tea Party types demanding conservative purity, blaming middle of the roaders like Graham and McCain for all the supposed ground the right has lost by compromising. Lots of arguments the opposite way, particularly after 2012, that it'd be better to focus on being a big tent instead of being ideological purist. We won't win major national elections unless x, y, z topics are dropped as front and center talking points (see abortion and even for a while immigration).

    It's the democrats to lose because outside of the historic reelection rate of incumbent presidents, the president isn't well liked nationally, burn out of Trumps antics is in their favor, and they only have to do slightly better bringing out voters on election day than 2016. They have a crowded field of candidates of which multiple could.
     
  3. downndirty

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    I think the Democrats have a recent history of shooting themselves in the foot. I was stunned that Kerry won the nomination, because he didn't seem to be different from Bush at all, and was subsequently beaten. I think just about everyone was stunned when Trump won. Even when he won the nomination, no media outlet was going to tell the emperor he had no clothes and say "we're not broadcasting this guy's nonsense, he's a troll and shouldn't be taken seriously." I think it was very clear this dude doesn't know how to govern, and the fact that we got to 2015 with him recognized as a legitimate authority on governance is a failure of the media.

    That, I think, is a critical part of the issue. These people are legitimized by the media for no good reason. Trump's birtherism nonsense was a great example, or for that matter, anyone of his "policy" claims during the campaign.

    People talk about AOC like she's fucking Thanos and can make shit happen. Why? She's a junior Congresswoman, that gets good play in the media, and serves as a distraction while Pelosi and Schumer actually govern. Fox News chants her name like they are villagers with pitchforks and torches, but let's be real: the GND was never feasible as legislation and yet no media outlet was going to be like "Not covering it, bro, because it's not real." I think the same thing about reparations.

    It's like a guidance counselor talking to a middle schooler who says "dragon tamer" is their career plan. You have to be an adult and a professional and tell them to come up with something real enough to work towards. No one seems capable of doing that anymore.

    So, at this point, Trump's main liability aside from EVERYTHING, is that he has no real platform to run on. He hasn't accomplished a Goddamned thing. His signature legislation was giving himself a tax break, that fucked over a significant number of Americans, especially among his base, and added billions to the deficit. The Senate map for Republicans isn't as friendly as 2018. The Democrats have a bigger window than normal, and right now, they just can't filter the noise well enough to find center mass.

    The best thing the Democrats can do is actually stop over-reacting to Trump, take the appeal to his base seriously and start to put messaging out there that's identity neutral. "It matters more that bad shit is happening, than the skin color of who bad shit is happening to. Let's stop bad shit from happening."
     
  4. Kampf Trinker

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    That's why I don't think Trump is one of the worst presidents in American history. He has had at best moderate success on trade and been a goddamn failure at almost everything else.

    Worst representative of the US ever? Sure, but he's too damn incompetent to fuck things up as much as he gets credit for. Compare that to someone like Bush jr who created disaster after disaster we are still feeling the impacts of.
     
  5. downndirty

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    I don't think we can assess the damage Trump did yet, but it's very telling that the top candidates for worst president ever are:
    Republican
    Recent

    I think of the Bush years as scarred by 9/11, Katrina and the recession.

    I think of the Trump years thus far as scarred by scandal after scandal, far more incompetence, race-baiting, Hurricane Maria and the inevitable economic deflation due near the end of his term.

    Comparing the two, Bush is the guy who hurt his back and got hooked on opioids. Trump is the dude that decided to use heroin and double down.

    Like in 15 or 20 years, I think much of this history will be written around the failings of a media ecosystem that allowed someone like Trump to flourish. Once old Rupert kicks the bucket, that countdown begins.
     
  6. Crown Royal

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    Jackson was the worst president America had as a person. And he’s on your money. Garfield was probably the best.
     
  7. Kampf Trinker

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    I think Assange is an asshole, but the reaction to the 2016 leaks will never stop being surreal to me. It was the most important release wikileaks ever did, and it's the only one people (at least on the left) are furious at him about. He had a role in exposing people in power for the pieces of shit they are... and they're upset about it. It's fucking insane. How are you not more pissed off at the people he exposed??? People are more angry about Hillary getting caught than what she got caught for.
     
  8. Aetius

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    I've read some convincing arguments that it was Wilson.
     
  9. ODEN

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    Best or worst?
     
  10. Aetius

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    Worst person to be President. Basically the argument was that he was a horrific racist and a borderline fascist, and put a great deal of effort into both.
     
  11. Juice

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    Buchanan is considered the worst usually. Sat back and did nothing while the country tore itself apart over slavery. Then handed the problem to Lincoln.
     
  12. Aetius

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    Worst President, yeah it's usually Buchanan. Worst person to be President gets a lot more interesting responses.
     
  13. Revengeofthenerds

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    Also wonder how that debate would look if the Internet and social media was around for everyone. Just the difference between the amount of info out there from Obama to trump is crazy. The leap between bush to Obama was mind blowing.
     
  14. Juice

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    Oh I see. Yeah, I would probably put Woodrow Wilson up there. He is probably one of the primary reasons the southern states currently still romanticize the Confederacy, their flag, and built statues to confederate soldiers, etc. That had all but disappeared and he campaigned to memorialize it. He also went out of his way to de-integrate federal agencies and offices as well as openly promoted reprisals against German American citizens up to and during WWI.
     
  15. Crown Royal

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    Did he not say that segregation was the key to avoid friction between races?

    And that man has a Nobel Peace prize.

    Still, Jackson murdered people with his own hands. That has to count for some street-cred.
     
  16. Kampf Trinker

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    Yes, but if people are taking the narrow view of judging historical figures entirely by the evils of their times we have presidents that owned slaves. Many historians rank Wilson among the best US presidents. I've seriously never seen the idea that he was among the worst as a person, or in regards to his accomplishments in office except from SJW puritans.

    That's not to say he never did anything reprehensible, but bullshit he was the worst president in any regard. Even if we're just talking subjectively about repulsive human beings, the motherfucker in office right now has him beat by a mile.

    By the way, he won the nobel prize for laying the foundations of what became the UN. I'm not saying the good washes out the bad, but still, that should count for something.
     
    #10756 Kampf Trinker, Apr 15, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
  17. Kubla Kahn

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    But Wilson helped usher in the Socialist nanny state ideas that have turned the government into an uncontrolled leviathan. You can thank him for the income tax and the failed League of Nations that lead to WW2.

     
  18. Kampf Trinker

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    Yeah, I've heard him blamed for WW2, but it makes no sense to me. He was the sober voice at the table and wanted to be far more lenient on Germany, and the other central powers. If you want to blame the allies for starting WW2 I suggest taking a harder look at England and France. The US never even joined the league of nations (thanks to congress) despite it evolving into the UN after WW2. Regardless, he still did lay the foundations even if that success was realized after his death. I'm not going to blame him for the failures of all the other players involved, who maintained a colonial mindset.

    Like FDR, libertarians/conservatives don't like him so much as he was a prominent figure in the transition away from laissez faire economics. Personally, I'm all for government infrastructure and an income tax.
     
  19. dixiebandit69

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    And this whole time I thought that Warren G. Harding was the worst president... You don't hear much about him, but I had a history teacher in highschool who fucking hated the guy, and let everyone know about it.

    Didn't he open up the floodgates for big-money influencing politics?
     
  20. Kampf Trinker

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    Barr is planning on releasing the 'full but redacted' Mueller report Thursday morning. I have little doubt this will be followed by weeks of spinning things into evidence of collusion that clearly don't indicate that, but maybe with the report (or at least most of it) coming out the end to this embarassing fucktarded saga is finally in sight. Nothing matters anymore indeed.