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Elephants and Jackasses...

Discussion in 'Permanent Threads' started by Nettdata, Oct 14, 2016.

  1. Revengeofthenerds

    Revengeofthenerds
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    Completely agree. At this point I can't really get mad at him, in the same way I don't get mad at children at work who have learning or developmental disabilities. It's obvious that Trump is completely off the hinges (which is scary for a number of reasons -- he has nukes), but it's hard to get mad at him because he's.... well, disabled? Clearly just not all there? I'm not a doctor, but I know what elderly people being not right looks like, and what that downward spiral looks like. It's taken the lives of several of my family members.

    Where I do get upset, and where I do fault people, is like you said: the GOP. They're giving the crazy guy a machine gun and a microphone and saying "here, go nuts on fox news." That's fucking pathetic. It's evil. It is morally bankrupt and ethically beyond reproach.

    What's ultimately gonna happen I think, is at some point in the future everyone is gonna get so fucking sick of it and society is gonna swing to the other extreme. Which is also where I'm worried, with people like Bernie Sanders and every politician to come out of California who likes to think that the government knows what's best for each individual person. That's also wrong, for entirely different but equally awful reasons.
     
  2. Kubla Kahn

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    Did I just shit myself?

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    He’ll spring his trap and bring down the administration any moment now.
     
  3. xrayvision

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    I guess as long as you’re okay with it.
     
  4. downndirty

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    I think this "impeachment" talk is a valid distraction from the fact that this Congress has done FUCK A FUCK all. McConnell has stalled so many movements, I think the state flag of Kentucky should be changed to feature the word "constipation".

    Pelosi is smart enough to see the writing on the wall: while the economy is good, impeachment is a mistake. Get a little bit closer to November 2020, have some hiccups in the economy show up, and let some of the nefarious shit Trump's done surface in another court...the move now is stall.

    The biggest thing here is to keep letting Trump do nothing. He could easily be goaded into war as a means of swaying the election (anyone remember Bush in 2004?), and the less he actually tries to legislate the better.

    Seriously, aside from travel, golf and tweet, what is the guy's agenda now? Campaign rally until lame-duck season?
     
  5. Crown Royal

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    This has basically been the model of your country since it’s existence. It isn’t going to start doing this, because it has never stopped doing it. That’s why you shouldn’t have only two political parties.
     
  6. Kubla Kahn

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    I think you guys are misrepresenting the facts, if it was such a clear cut crime wouldn’t he have used stronger language about congress taking up constitutional methods like he did with the obstruction part of the report? The facts he saw didn’t even lead him to insinuate it needed to be taken up by Congress. Like it or not working with foreigners on elections, opposition research and so forth, isn’t illegal. The impeachment powers are pretty wide and congress could certainly take it up if they like, collusion is the weaker of the two for sure.
     
  7. Kampf Trinker

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    They have no case. Definitely not on the Mueller report. Why the fuck is this even still in the news? Forget about getting the GOP on board, they can't even unify the democrats behind impeachment proceedings, and for good reason.
     
  8. xrayvision

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    He stated explicitly that he couldn’t make the determination because of a standing OLC opinion with regard to indicting a sitting president. People are taking that in their own way, but it’s not for a lack of evidence. Barr took it upon himself to interpret that in a way to cause lay people to think it meant nothing was there. It was slick, but highly misleading especially because he knows most Americans are too stupid to know the difference and didn’t read the full report anyhow.

    The part of the report about obstruction and not establishing a determination on collusive activities had more to do with the fact that they destroyed evidence, deleted messages, had encrypted data, etc. “Could not establish” doesn’t mean “no collusion”. It means their suppressive efforts were enough to prevent Mueller from seeing things that used to be there.
     
  9. downndirty

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    It's a shaky argument: there wasn't a crime of collusion, but there was obstruction to the investigation.

    So, it's too much of a technicality. The investigation concluded, no smoking gun. If there was, obstruction of justice would be icing on the cake.

    And, wait what? Working with foreign powers to sway an election is all fucking kinds of illegal. Like treasonous illegal. What the fuck, what do you think they've been worried about this whole goddamned time?
     
  10. Kubla Kahn

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    Did I just shit myself?

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    I know I’m parsing words but there are illegal activities involved with collusion, that’s what the investigation was looking for . What the Trump campaign did obviously didn’t fall into that or Muellers report would have laid out the specific instances and why they were illegal and I’m certain he’d have gone the same route as the obstruction part and specifically noted it’s Congress’s job to hold him to account for the specific crimes.

    Listening to mueller yesterday to infer he was claiming the Administration covered up well enough he couldn’t find the information that would have proven collusion is pure projecting fantasy.
     
  11. Aetius

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    It's more that he didn't have jurisdiction to investigate what happened outside the US. He knew that for example Manafort gave polling data to a Ukrainian oligarch, but what happened to that data after that point, and what use that data was put to, isn't something he could find out because he couldn't just subpoena foreign nationals on foreign soil.

    He did however very clearly establish behavior that was impeachable, if not strictly criminal, on the question of collusion.
     
  12. downndirty

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    No one has exonerated him, and no one has prosecuted him.

    The closest analogy I can think of is a medical test where the results are inconclusive. Not "no, you're clean" or "yeah, you got that shit", but "inconclusive". Could be a bad sample, lab error, not enough material, whatever.

    Did he collude? Apparently not. Mueller's investigation is good enough for now. So, why this is still being brought up as if it's current is beyond me.

    Did Mueller get every piece of evidence he wanted? Of course not. No good investigator would ever say that. So, since Mueller didn't get every piece of evidence, he's not going to say for sure "yup, case closed, done deal, all good." He's going to professionally communicate the limitations and uncertainty of his work. Thus his statement.

    He didn't have enough evidence to exonerate or prosecute, and getting more evidence wasn't going to happen. Thus the conclusion of the probe.

    So here we are.

    Is Trump guilty of illegal shit? Most likely. To date, I haven't heard a single accusation lobbed at Trump that isn't believable (aside from the pee pee tape). It stands to reason that much of his "empire" is financed by Russian money that is most likely dirty. It stands to reason that someone so shady and incompetent didn't respect the precise letter of the law when it comes to campaign rules. It stands to reason that he's broken dozens of laws over the course of the past few years.

    I mean, what part of New York City real estate developer and landlord suggests "I'm 100% law-abiding"?

    And since he hasn't been transparent, didn't put those interests in escrow/a trust while president, has the secret service rack up millions in bills at his resort, and basically refuses to acknowledge he isn't as perfect as Christ, the investigations will continue.
     
  13. ODEN

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    The interesting part of this that seems to be getting lost is that this is law enforcement and the rule of law; the burden of proof is on the accuser to prove guilt, nothing more or less. There is no burden on Mueller to exonerate Trump, there is no burden on Trump to exonerate himself. He is innocent until proven guilty. Absent that, within the boundaries of our system, there is nothing else to say.
     
  14. Aetius

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    It's a unique situation because he is literally the one person on the planet that cannot be indicted. So there is no possible way for Mueller to meet a burden of proof, regardless of how much evidence he has, because there's no venue for him to do so. Mueller's only option, and apparently the one he took, is to throw all the evidence to the Congress and hope they do their job.
     
  15. Kampf Trinker

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    He doesn't have ANY evidence of collusion. Why the fuck are we still talking about this like it's going to go somewhere? It won't. Ever. Get pissed off at the system, the GOP, people like me - whatever you want, but it's not going to change anything. At this point you're beating a dead a horse whose bones are turning to dust.

    This is one of the things I really like about Gabbard. She said exactly what every fucking representative should have said about collusion after the report came out.

    I don't understand what is so fucking hard about this. Why was she one of the only people saying this? "Yeah, he sucks, but there's no collusion. Let's get him voted out." Bingo. Done.

    This collusion thing has gotten so stupid, and I'm so disgusted with the way the democrats keep acting I almost hope they lose again. An emphasis on almost there, but seriously, what is there really to be said about a party that spent millions of dollars on a fucking conspiracy theory, found nothing, and STILL makes it their central issue? That is total insanity, and it really makes me doubt their ability to effectively and competently govern.

    That's what scares me about the democrat primaries. We have big issues to deal with that need to be front and center. Instead there's going to be a heavy focus on women's equality, collusion bullshit, and how we need more immigrants. What the fuck is wrong with people?
     
  16. Aetius

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    The Trump Tower meeting was collusion, full stop.
     
  17. Revengeofthenerds

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    BuT theEY DIdn'T iNvEStIgATe OBaMa!!!
     
  18. xrayvision

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    As was Manafort giving polling data to the Russians, as was Stone working with Assange to coordinate the DNC hack and when to distribute the stolen material.
     
  19. Kampf Trinker

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    This, with the random caps and idiotic dismissiveness sums up every goddamn fucktarded thing I've heard about 'collusion proof' in the last two years. Bravo.
     
  20. kindalas

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    His response is exactly how you sound.

    You are clearly a Tump fan boi. During the election of you hid behind the "I'm a Bernie bro" line about how you couldn't vote for Hillary after she stole the nomination from him.

    When Bernie announced he was running again you went on some nonsense commentary about how bad socialism was.

    Now that the report is out, you're still banging the "no collusion drum" we're all waiting for you to go on and on about buttery males.

    There are plenty of people here who have conservative values that I disagree with but they at least are consistent in their views and when they change their minds on things they work to explain their logic.

    You are not one of those people.You're just a loud mouth who repeats what other people want without taking a moment to think about the garbage that is coming out.