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Elephants and Jackasses...

Discussion in 'Permanent Threads' started by Nettdata, Oct 14, 2016.

  1. jdoogie

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    Because he essentially got away with the same thing in regards to Iran-Contra without any real repercussions?
     
  2. xrayvision

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    I suppose that is true. I think things were easier to cover up back in the day though. Without social media and a seemingly endless ability for people to publicly make opinions and increase pressure on public officials, why would he think this would go the same way?
     
  3. downndirty

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    I think this is the larger Trump strategy adjusting to winning the election.

    If Trump lost, he would have his own Fox News channel and grouse about libtards and cucks all the livelong day, and based on the books written about it, I don't think he believed he'd win. I think he was genuinely surprised he won the Republican nomination. Since he won, and he has no idea how to govern, the constant investigations play to his advantage. He can just constantly fire people, pretend to be consumed with investigations and golf and avoid actually doing anything.

    "Work" most of the week, go to rallies when you're bored, Mar-A-Lago on the weekends, and make sure the Secret Service spends a fuck ton of money there...

    I mean, aside from the tax reform act, what has he done? Much of his administration's accomplishments seem to be centered around rabble-rousing and controversial executive orders, not actual leadership or significant legislation. He can't hire anyone who knows how to get shit done, especially not at this point in his tenure. Who would risk a serious career joining Trump? Barr, Giuliani, etc. are all from the discard pile. I'd bet McConnell is done soon, and it's not like Kushner or Ivanka have a career in politics after Daddy is out of office. So, he's already a lame duck president.

    Dude plays a lot of golf, shitposts a lot on Twitter, and that's about it.

    Did anyone seriously believe we are going to build a 1200 mile wall to stop Mexicans, or somehow you can prevent millions of Muslims from somehow travelling here?

    In other news, DHS is asking for volunteers for the Southern Border crisis....
     
  4. Juice

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    Interesting example, considering the most high profile agency she helped create (the CFPB) doesnt get its funding from Congress, it gets essentially a blank check from the Federal Reserve. This has created all sorts of issues and controversies over the scope of its authority.

    As for the Mueller report, as much as inventing new scandals is fun, everyone understands that Barr cant just release whatever he wants publicly or to Congress, right? Grand jury information is sealed by law and he has to get approval by a judge to do so. So there doesnt seem to be any concrete basis for concluding that hes covering something up, other than reputational butthurt by journalists over the conclusions themselves. Releasing to Congress is silly. He should just get a federal court order to release things to the public, and all at once.
     
  5. xrayvision

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    283AD86C-90D2-432C-9E55-D3CBFD2E5CE2.jpeg
    On the way
     
  6. downndirty

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    I would go, if given the chance.

    I think it's something of a legitimate issue: people are fleeing countries, claiming asylum and then using that as a method to enter the country. It's perfectly legal, and in many cases they are fleeing gang violence (a la MS-13). However, it's something of a refugee exodus, numbering thousands of people. Our laws, immigration procedures and resources there are simply not equipped for that kind of crisis. Simply processing those folks so their asylum case can be heard is a massive effort. It's a rock and a hard place, because we want to extend humanitarian privilege to those fleeing persecution, but at this scale it's a serious burden.

    In previous years, we would often redirect these folks to communities or programs in their home countries with shit going on paid for with international aid. USAID, Millennium Challenge, etc. However, in places like Guatemala, El Sal & Honduras, those programs are looted and we get very little return on our investment. Leadership is justifiably angry about that: we have a refugee crisis AND you wasted all our money? Also, lots of that aid has dwindled down, or was funnelled to development projects that were ran by US companies anyway (read "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man"). Given the combative nature of this administration towards immigrants, the emaciated State department and the lack of funding, it's no surprise that's not a viable solution.

    I disagree with this administration a lot, and I'm 100% confident a wall isn't a solution. However, this is a serious issue and it warrants more than a knee-jerk reaction.

    Also, the immigrant problem we had in the Bush years was more of the "dey took der jobs" problem. Which was rough, but at least they paid into Social Security and other programs without really drawing from them. THIS immigrant problem is almost exclusively going to be placed at the taxpayer expense. What do thousands of Central American children do for work, housing, healthcare, etc.? No state wants to cover that expense on it's own, so it automatically becomes a Federal issue.
     
  7. Jimmy James

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    Doesn't really apply in this case. When the report was put together, each section was summarized without grand jury information. This was done to ensure the gist of the report would be released without compromising the grand jury.

    https://theweek.com/speedreads/8332...stigators-wrote-summaries-assumed-made-public
     
  8. Juice

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    But thats not whats being asked for. Congress is asking for the entire report, including all supporting evidence, to make their own assertion. Sounds like they want to control what information the public gets, which is a terrible way to make a high profile disclosure. Even Adam Schiff said that Barr needs to get the report contents unsealed by a judge. And if a judge decides not to grant the disclosure based on judicial rules, then what? It goes to the Supreme Court? The fight over just releasing this could surpass the next election altogether.
     
  9. Nettdata

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    Barr has released a follow-up statement saying that his initial summary statement wasn't really a summary. Well, duh. Lawyer-speak 101 says you take exact quotes radically out of context and spin them towards your narrative, which is exactly what he did. Don't be fooled... Barr is no slouch as a lawyer. The audience of that initial report is overwhelmingly non-lawyers, so they interpreted it in a completely different manner.

    That has allowed TrumCo to run around and make the initial "non-summary" somewhat fact in the mainstream media, to the point that people are now happy to discount the whole report due to the fact that Barr released his "summary". While being factual for what it was, it's not representative of the Mueller report itself.

    He can now point to the page 14 retraction statement he made and say, "see? it wasn't really, so don't blame me if you misinterpreted my initial statement". There is no repercussion to him, legally, because legally he did nothing wrong.

    They just fed a line to a bunch of people that were looking for support of their own personal narrative, and it got gobbled up.
     
  10. xrayvision

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    Also, it’s really saying something when we all heard not a peep from the Mueller team for the entire two years. Now they are leaking hard. I just don’t get how Barr could not see it going like this. Appealing to a large mass of retards is not the same as the House oversight and judiciary. The retards may have bought the whole bullshit “summary” at face value. But really, they had to have known it was far too simplistic to be the full truth.
     
  11. Kampf Trinker

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    No shit, but the entertainment value is great. The fact that people are still going on about Russian collusion like it's ever going to go anywhere is downright hysterical.

    That said, I'm sure Barr's summary (it was only 4 pages, and Mueller has farmed out other Trump investigations after all) left out plenty that makes Trump look bad, but this grand collusion cover up is such nonsense at this point you can't help but laugh.
     
  12. Revengeofthenerds

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    Pardon me while I just shift these goalposts....
     
  13. Kampf Trinker

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    What goalpost?
     
  14. Nettdata

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  15. Kampf Trinker

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  16. Nettdata

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    Collusion is very specific, and somewhat open to interpretation. And it wasn’t the focus of the investigation. It is what a lot of people are focusing on in an “if the glove don’t fit you must acquit” manner, but that’s not it.

    I think there is a ton of bad shit in that report that is bad for the US.

    The only thing I do know is that Trump doesn’t want anyone to see it, so it’s not good for him.

    As to the “but redactions”, Mueller’s team also provided 4 fully redacted summaries along with the main report, ready for publication. They were all ignored.

    Gee. I wonder why?

    There is bad shit in that report for Trump, and I really want to see it. The way Barr released his “summary” just further confirms it to me.

    Why are you so quick to dismiss it?
     
  17. xrayvision

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    Also, Trump has literally lied about every single thing he’s ever said or done. At this point, I’d have be shown evidence that he’s not a bad actor .
     
  18. Kampf Trinker

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    I don't dismiss it at all. I'm virtually certain of it, and this is precisely why I find the never ending collusion angle so bizarre.

    Trump is guilty of a litany of financial crimes, and this should have been the focus of the past two years. Russia should have been a side show, at least as far as Trump is concerned.

    This is why obstruction would be such a dumb play right now. They've done enough damage to their credibility with this Russia shit, plus it's a relatively minor charge that is going to result in a legal quagmire. They should stick to the financial crimes, and if they had put their resources and political capital there in the first place they might already have Trump shitting his pants, instead of just writing about it every time the media drops another 'Russia bombshell'. That's the part that is so funny to me. It seems like the dems have been ignoring the fires to chase after a fantasy because just being guilty of a lot of the same shit as other politicians wasn't cool enough or something.
     
  19. downndirty

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    The "crimes" Trump committed: he could pardon himself, right?
    Some vague financial crimes, or crimes that could be considered procedural wouldn't sway the public. If I learned anything from 2008, it's that no white guy is going to jail for financial crimes, especially not a sitting fucking president.

    You think the republicans didn't learn from the Ken Starr report?

    But: cooperating with Russians to sway the election? In some parts, that's tantamount to treason, and Trump pardoning himself wouldn't go over well with his base.
    As well, there's so many examples of Trump (and his business) collaborating with Russian nationals, it's hard not to imagine they didn't help him win the election. In short, there's quite a lot of smoke...so it makes sense you'd spend a lot of time looking for fire. It's also very hard to believe NOTHING inappropriate happened, or was coordinated on his behalf, considering his inability to tell the truth and a checkered ethical history.

    My favorite meme of the moment basically states: He claims to be smart, but won't release his grades. He claims to be rich, but won't release his tax returns. He claims he's innocent but won't release the report.

    And....I think fundamentally, this just isn't how innocent people behave.
     
  20. Revengeofthenerds

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    Trump is now referring all questions about his taxes to his attorneys. I’m sure they’re thrilled.