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Elephants and Jackasses...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Nettdata, Oct 14, 2016.

  1. Kampf Trinker

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    No, it's because they outright lie. Having a slant is one thing, making up shit wholesale is another. It's not because I'm so biased I don't give them a chance, it's because they've ruined their reputation by being full of shit.

    I don't understand how someone can pretend this is debatable.
     
  2. Aetius

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    But it's not objective. That's part of knowing how to consume media. You're not supposed to just swallow everything they tell you wholesale. But that doesn't mean you reject everything they tell you wholesale either. You understand your sources, their methods, their reputations, you balance your media diet, you follow up on particularly large claims, etc. The problem is people finding out that one source isn't perfect, so they assume that they're all equally imperfect, and then just pick the bottom-of-the-barrel rag that feeds their anger or narcissism.
     
  3. Nettdata

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    So... what happened to crazy caravan that was going to invade the border, and troops had to be sent down?

    Did they go away?
    Are they no longer a threat?

    I ask because it's been a couple days since I've heard anything about it, and it's no longer on Fox's front page. Cynical me thinks that the mid-term elections are over, so there's no need to push that story any more.
     
  4. Rush-O-Matic

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    Yep. All that. It would've been nice if Trump had instead started calling it "biased news" instead of fake news, because that's what it is. Then that could help with what Aetius is talking about with how people consume it. If people understood that CNN has a bias one way, and Fox another, people would chill out a bit. Of course Fox / Sanders / whomever is going to boil Acosta's interaction down to an assault, and of course if Sean Hannity had done that to an Obama staffer, CNN would've called for his head.
     
  5. Clutch

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    To be fair, kind of a lot of newsworthy stuff has happened in the last 36 hours. I'm often in a place where FOX News is on one of the tv's, and they were certainly still talking about it on their talk shows yesterday.
     
  6. Nettdata

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    Honest question for you... do you think that the coverage of the caravan was used to rile up Republicans to get them to vote?
     
  7. Rush-O-Matic

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    I'm not speaking for Clutch . . . I don't know if coverage was used that way by Fox or other right-leaning media any more than their regular right-leaning coverage of other issues. But, for candidates? Absolutely they used it to get the vote out. A lot of candidates posted pictures on their Twitter "I won't let this happen" or "I stand for secure borders" etc.
     
  8. Crown Royal

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    Pretty much, yeah. People a thousand miles away on foot constituting as some sort of “threat” was pretty much a propaganda piece from the start.
     
  9. Clutch

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    Some, but I think that the administration is using it more to rile people up about its immigration agenda, especially what is likely to be a hard push for border wall funding during the lame duck period. Homeland Security is currently only funded for another 30 days.
     
  10. xrayvision

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    I personally believe they evaporated into thin air.
     
  11. Rush-O-Matic

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    I disagree with that. Was it used as a propaganda piece? Sure, but it's a real issue. Europe faced a real crisis 2-3 years ago (and still is) from overwhelming refugee migration, and having a debate about offering asylum to those who need it, versus fighting back invaders is most definitely the role of a government sworn to protect it's citizens. So, the news should cover that. It's not like just Fox was discussing the caravan. Don't think that caravan just started because some neighbors got together. It was started by a politician organizing them, and the ones interviewed were coached on the right phrases to use.
     
  12. Aetius

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    Europe was facing 100,000 migrants per month actually reaching Europe, across routes less well controlled than the US border, consisting mostly of people from active war zones, and the end result was still vastly overblown. The US is facing 5,000 people and dropping (as many find asylum or choose to stay in Mexico), marching to known ports of entry, in a country more than capable of processing those asylum requests. We have literally zero to fear from the caravan.
     
  13. Clutch

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    Are you intentionally trying to be misleading, or do you not realize that the entire Senate did not get elected this year? Yes, the Democrats won the popular vote in the Senate. They also won an overwhelming majority of the seats being voted for. Democrats/Independents won 23 races. Republicans won 13.
     
  14. Nettdata

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    Totally agree. I guess what is so frustrating is that the resolution to said issue was boiled down to "build a wall" and I don't think the current administration has the desire or the skill set to do something other than that.

    I also think that they use fear-mongering tactics to get people to side with their stance. "Muggers and rapists and drug dealers are coming".

    It's like health care... these are hard problems that will not have a solution that will make everyone happy, but reasonable effort should go into resolving these issues so that at least some sort of compromise can be reached.

    But compromise isn't part of the current political climate.

    So until then, I guess it's "do what you have to do to get your way, even if it includes lying and fear mongering".
     
  15. Aetius

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    Ok let's do the last three elections to get the full Senate:

    2014: Republicans win 25M-21M votes and win 24-12 seats
    2016: Democrats win 51M-40M votes and win 12-22 seats
    2018: Democrats win 46M-34M votes and win 23-12 seats

    So in total Democrats win the vote by 118M-99M and lose the seats by 58-47
     
  16. Juice

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    So then what is your point? That people in California and Texas should be electing Senators from Vermont?
     
  17. Aetius

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    That the senate is an antiquated institution that has far too much power for its undemocratic underpinnings.
     
  18. Kampf Trinker

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    Ok, but isn't this why the larger states have far more power in the house and other national posts? You're pretty much undermining the whole purpose of state's rights. That's why the senate works like it does, not because the founders were too old to not get that it wasn't going to balance out perfectly across the population.

    Besides, there is no chance this changes within the next 20 years. Probably not within the next 100 years. This whole discussion is kind of pointless.

    To change it you'd have to get most of these little states to come along, and obviously they have no reason to do so.
     
  19. Aetius

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    The Senate was designed for a time when:
    1. The division between the states was the primary division of the population, and thus made sense to prioritize its protection.
    2. The states had far more power, and the federal government far less, so an unbalanced senate protected the smaller states without giving them the power to run roughshod over the larger ones (fun fact: the federal army was never intended to be able to outgun even a single state's militia, much less all of them combined)
    3. There were fewer states with smaller discrepancies in size between them, so the imbalance wasn't as severe.
    4. Neither the judiciary nor the executive had acquired the power they do today, so the Senate's exclusive power to serve as a check on appointments couldn't overwhelm the House the way it does today.
    5. Slavers wanted dat sweet sweet representation without letting slaves vote.
    It is an idea whose time has largely passed.
     
  20. Kampf Trinker

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    I disagree, but more importantly you still have the problem where you need to get states like Montana and Idaho to say "You know what? Actually we would like to be completely irrelevant to national politics." This isn't going to change without a constitutional amendment and it would never pass.