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Elephants and Jackasses...

Discussion in 'Permanent Threads' started by Nettdata, Oct 14, 2016.

  1. Aetius

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    I don't know what happened behind closed doors at the G7 summit, but the statements coming out of Europe make it sound like Trump shat himself and then sat in it while grinning.
     
  2. Kubla Kahn

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    Half decent Salon article on the special elections and the ideological weight put on them.

    It's farely bleak but I think can also be applied to the internal "civil war" Republican's are in as well. It's amazing that both parties are going through some of the exact same pains on opposite sides of the spectrum. There has been a divide between moderates and hardliners for the past few election cycles in the Republican side. Thrown in that mess is Donald Trump who holds many populist stances that irk the shit out of hardline convservatives.
     
  3. Aetius

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    Damn that's bleak. The basic thesis of that piece is that Republican voters are too far gone to ever act in the interest of the country. If that thesis holds, civil war is inevitable (although it'll take a while for us to limp to that point of desperation).

    I agree with the piece that the most exuberant liberals are expecting too much of 2018, that the Senate map is awful for the Democrats, and as a result removing Trump from office simply won't happen, but I do think he's overly pessimistic about the House. An idiosyncratic Democrat losing in a +20R state doesn't mean the Democrats can't win a majority by picking up seats in much more purple (or even blue) states. He also seems to think Ossoff losing is a near foregone conclusion, even though he's up 2 points in the polls right now.
     
  4. Kubla Kahn

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    I really don't see any sort of armed confrontation ever really happening again in America in this day and age. It doesn't help that each side plays the zero sum game card, but wouldn't they, it is effective. We're just too satiated to ever get into some drawn out conflict on our own soil.

    Same kind of goes with the impeach Trump narrative, super unlikely to see results, but it gets a whole lot of the democratic base fired up anyway. I cannot picture a scenerio where the Democrats actually move on from it to actually try and legislate. It's been way too effective at slowing down Trump's agenda thus far. They can claim anything Trump will sign will be a loss for leftist ideals and get cover from the media with the endless trickle of 'stop the presses' Trump scandels to move public opinion along and deflect from the legislative record. I see it as the same sort of do nothing tactics the right did for 8 years under Obama, but they are just better at media manipulation. Shit is just fundementally broken in Washington.
     
  5. Aetius

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    We're definitely too fat and lazy to fight right now, but I question how long that holds. The trend we're on now is increasing wealth inequality, no plan to address job loss to automation, increasingly isolated from our allies and trading partners, and driving countries into China's sphere of influence because we stubbornly want to keep burning fossil fuels at a suicidal rate. I don't see our prosperity lasting if those trends continue.
     
  6. xrayvision

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    But her emails.
     
  7. Nettdata

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    Any effective fighting that will be done in the near future will be done by smart people in a position to fuck things up systemically. It'll be banking systems, payment systems, or any other kind of "I need this to live day to day" system, especially now that so much of the country lives day to day. Maybe even pure online access, etc... remove that or fuck that up well enough to make it unusable, and you have problems. Or energy distribution. Or the stock market.

    Bring that shit down hard and long enough and you'll see a major change come about.

    Think Mr. Robot type stuff.

    I don't see any physical fighting or shooting in the streets being at all effective, just fodder for the 24 hour news monster.
     
  8. Crown Royal

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    IT experts freak me out more than nukes or the crazies who want them. Eventually tech experts will simply be the gatekeepers to everything, and if they so feel like it they'll hand the next American presidency to Kylie Minogue. Even soldiers are being replaced by automation. Soon all battles will be fought on keyboards; meanwhile we are now aware that pretty much anything can be hacked by anybody, at the same time technology keeps getting smarter and faster. Wheeeeee!

    And then the machines shall rise. *Dun dun DUN-DUN-DUN.....*
     
  9. Aetius

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    At this point I'm just flat out impressed by the discipline of the IRS.

    NSA: We can read everything you've ever typed into a computer. Leaks.
    CIA: We can black bag you anywhere in the world and make it like you never existed. Leaks.
    FBI: We can arrest you anywhere in the United States and send you to federal prison for the rest of your life. Leaks.
    White House: This is literally the belly of the beast. Leaks.
    IRS: Our professional code of conduct says that the president's tax returns are a private matter. Doesn't leak.
     
  10. shimmered

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    He's the human equivalent of a pigeon on a chessboard.
     
  11. ODEN

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    Well, I know this is quite a contrary opinion but worth consideration as the vast majority of the media wouldn't provide the opposite view point on this. Is it possible that they have reviewed his tax returns and determined that there is nothing illegal contained therein? It is after all their job to ensure they receive what they are due and if you fail to do so, they kind of make a big deal out of it; especially when you are talking about someone who general pays far more in taxes (IRS revenue) than most of the rest of us?

    Let's face it, the IRS are no white knights, Lois Lerner showed us that. You would think that after weaponizing the IRS to go after Conservative groups that someone like Don the Bigot would have had a bullseye on his back what with all the birther comments that he spouted for as long as he did. I hold no illusions about our Government or their integrity, I'm positive that once Trump has the chance to install his people, he will use the Government to the same effect.
     
  12. xrayvision

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    Having foreign debts and investments isn't necessarily illegal. Trump not sharing his tax returns also isn't illegal. The information he is hiding from the public could be what is making him compromised and potentially working for foreign interests.
     
  13. ODEN

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    So he is compromised for sure?

    It sounds like what you are asking for is a full accounting of his net worth, investments, and streams of income, which a 1040 wouldn't give you. My understanding is that all presidential candidates, when releasing their tax forms don't release all of the schedules with them, so what would be gained by this? Is it just that he isn't following tradition? If the public is asking for all of the schedules then they are asking a lot, furthermore, who is going to interpret it for us? The Washington Post? I'm sure it will be entirely impartial and facts based when it happens......why would anybody, in this partisan climate, sign up for such a thing?

    Besides, when Putin drove the forklift, shirtless, up to the loading dock at Trump Tower with the pallet of cash on it that said BRIBE in big letters on the shrink wrap, I doubt the transaction was recorded. I mean c'mon, when you sell your playstation on Craigslist for cash, you don't account for that income on your taxes do you?
     
  14. xrayvision

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    I'm strictly interested in who he owes money to because I feel that would compromise his decision making to work for his personal best interests instead of the country.

    There is just too many Russia coincidences at this point for me to think his choices for people in his administration are purely organic and just happen to have ties.

    My assumption is that he is being manipulated and trying to protect himself. At the same time, I also think he's a retard. So I don't think he is playing chess at all. I think he's acting on purely superficial and selfish reasoning and he's in way over his head at this point.
     
  15. ODEN

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    I agree. I think this statement holds for EVERY SINGLE PERSON in public office. By Hillary's own admission they left the White House dead broke in 2001 and miraculously earned in the 9-figures region over that time to now. All from book deals, speaking engagements, public office salaries, etc. Amazing stuff really, they should write another book about it......maybe wikileaks could write the Foreward for them? You have to wonder whether any of those activities would rise to the level of concern about being compromised, wouldn't you? Furthermore, how about your local senator or mine who regularly meet with "Lobbyists"? You know what lobbyists really are. Are these public officials compromised?

    I think they are all compromised. I think they have been for quite some time. I think if you were honest with yourself, you know that they are too. If that is so, what is the point of making a huge stink about Russia in this instance? Is it just that the compromised politician on your team didn't win and the other team's compromised politician did?
     
    #2995 ODEN, May 31, 2017
    Last edited: May 31, 2017
  16. xrayvision

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    No I'm not bitter about the election or being on a team. I never defended Hillary in the past if you had ever went through my posts during the election season and the primaries either. In fact, I think she was one of the worst candidates the dems could have chosen.

    But at this moment, the GOP are the ones with most of the power because of their numbers. And we have a guy shitting the bed on every possible thing he does as president.

    It's really getting exhausting looking at the way he behaves, the things he says, and the way he's treating allies and then get accused of being a bitter snowflake who can't get over losing election. I didn't lose an election. We all did.

    But I do agree that we should hold all elected officials to a very high level of scrutiny. I just don't see it ever happening.
     
    #2996 xrayvision, May 31, 2017
    Last edited: May 31, 2017
  17. downndirty

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    "I think they are all compromised. I think they have been for quite some time. I think if you were honest with yourself, you know that they are too. If that is so, what is the point of making a huge stink about Russia in this instance? Is it just that the compromised politician on your team didn't win and the other team's compromised politician did?"

    There's a dramatic difference between some Congressman getting donations from Boeing, and a so-called billionaire whose business ventures can't even find finance in most US banks being connected to a country and a government we spent 70 goddamn years fighting, is currently sanctioned and is known for opposing our interests and attempting to thwart us. What is this " only a Sith deals in absolutes" bullshit?

    This is a ridiculous, reductionist argument that keeps being made, because it favors the fuckery Republicans continue to propagate by equating unpopular, legal and shady things that our politicians do to fund their campaigns and actual fucking corruption of the highest order. If there is any shadow of a doubt that our president and his ludicrously unqualified, nepotistic cabinet are unduly influenced by a foreign power, it is vital to our democracy that it be addressed as a threat tantamount to treason. This is why all the smoke can't be just blown away. Again, qui bono? Who wants you to equate Trump's Big Fucking Russian Deal to every other politicians' daily grind of cold calling and asking for contributions. Most likely, the people who stand to benefit from you not giving a shit. Again, dismiss the fantasy that the "swamp" can be drained, and a functioning government can be installed like a fresh copy of Windows...the people with the experience in making this shit work are the same people who know how to get the wheels greased, and it's unsightly, but unlikely to change until the fundamentals of politics and economics shift.

    And for the love of fucking Christ, can we stop talking about Hillary. She lost, it was six Goddamned months ago and she has done nothing but cavort in old lady pants since. The entire machine that won the election now has nothing to target, and isn't geared toward defending itself...it was built for dismantling an enemy. In the absence of that target, it literally has no purpose or drive, and it's starting to eat itself. To paraphrase Lewis Black, for the past 8 years the Republicans have been the party of no ideas, screaming "it can't work, no no no no, it can't be done" and now they are forced to become the party of bad ideas. The same fuckers that have obstructed are now charged with actually proposing ideas, and it's clear they aren't exactly good at it.
     
  18. Rush-O-Matic

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    That's not going to happen, during Trump's administration or anyone else's, in the same way democrats spent 10 years starting every discussion with "Well Bush lied . . ." Once Trump's 8 years are over, it will swing back to the Democrats, and the cycle will continue to repeat. GK Chesterton died in 1936, but captured it when he wrote, "The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected."
     
  19. Aetius

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    So Trump is pulling us out of the Paris Agreement because he is a being of pure spite. His track record for making the worst possible decision in all scenarios is truly remarkable.
     
  20. Juice

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    Its not the worst possible decision, even if it might be for the worst possible motivation. The Agreement has goals with vaguely defined steps to achieve those goals. The US and EU bear the brunt of the costs in the immediate term while essentially giving China and India a pass until 2030, and nearly zero accountability for Russia and OPEC. The entire time, the US and EU will dump money into a slush fund, and other nations are already squirming to scale back their own contributions before even getting to the table. Its Kyoto Protocol bullshit all over again.