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Drinking Age is 21..or is it 19? Meh, my fake ID says I'm 28

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Solaris, Mar 29, 2010.

  1. Nettie

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    Yeah, that would go over so awesome here in hicksville, where we don't even have cabs, much less buses or a bus pass. If you don't have a license, you don't work. Period. Unless you want to be a cashier at the local convenience store. And every time someone quits/gets fired, there's a 100 unemployed, no driver's license, I can bike to work, idiots applying. Which is once about every two months.

    For a metro area, with ready access to public transportation? Okay. Hell, around here, there are four colleges in a town (and county) that prohibits strip bars. There is a strip bar just over the county line, in a town that doesn't even have a gas station, much less a stop light. Some folks came up with an awesome idea, they now run party buses from the colleges to the bar, with designated drop off/pick up points. I'm sure the insurance is astronomical. But there are comments constantly on how many fewer DUI's are now given coming back into town from said establishment.

    Highly agree. Show a military ID, drink. Even if you're a freaking weekend warrior, at least you went through basic/AIT & these days have a very good chance of ending up in the sandbox.
     
  2. iczorro

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    I spent most of my time between 18-21 in the Middle East, but when I was in the states, I usually didn't have a problem getting alcohol with my military i.d. Making it legal works for me.
     
  3. Kubla Kahn

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    Working at two bars I can attest to this, the bouncers more often than not just waived anyone in with no inspection if they pulled out military IDs.
     
  4. Muses

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    "Statistically significant" means that it probably didn't just happen by coincidence. I can't find exact numbers for drunk driving deaths per capita in 18-20 year olds in 1975, so I guess I couldn't really calculate a p-value to test a null hypothesis or anything scientifically airtight like that. But with such a large sample size (18-20 year olds in every state in America) I would wager that a 13% decrease isn't just coincidence.

    I guess you could argue that America in 1975 was a lot different from America in 2002 (and in 2010). Maybe that 13% drop means 21st-century 18-20 year olds are just smarter, more informed, and make better decisions than those of 1975 (or all that MADD crap actually works), but that's a lot harder to objectively measure than a statistic like drunk driving deaths in a certain demographic. I suppose the only way to find out for sure would be to lower the drinking age to 18 and watch the numbers carefully. I'm not vehemently opposed to that - I think there are worse ways we could be making our laws than through trial and error.

    I don't totally get the point you're making here. How do you make the logical leap from "cars kill more people than underage drinking" to "we should lower the drinking age"?
     
  5. scotchcrotch

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    Cars are more fatal than alcohol, yes or no?
     
  6. Muses

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    Yes. They're also not the same thing as alcohol, because there are a lot of upsides to allowing people under 21 to drive cars compared to the relative few upsides of letting people under 21 drink (legally).

    I think I should reiterate here that I'm under 21 and I drink regularly, and I do support "decriminalization" of underage drinking. But apparently outright lowering the drinking age causes the dumber portion of the 18-20 crowd to think that drinking and driving is just OK too. So if leaving the age at 21 saves a good number of lives, the downside - kids like me having to be a little more careful when we party - is minimal in comparison.

    Also I'd totally support allowing all armed forces men and women to drink w/ military ID.
     
  7. ghettoastronaut

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    Have you not read a single fucking post in this thread? If you're enough of an adult to decide to join the military (and for that matter to decide to not join the military) then you're enough of an adult to drink alcohol. It's not about actually being in the military, it's about being enough of an adult to make that decision.

    Besides that, if the claim is that letting 18-20 year olds drink is going to result in drunken automobile massacres, wait until you see a bunch of 18-20 year olds fresh out of basic training with a license to drink.
     
  8. turboawesome

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    Laws should reflect public opinion. When the majority have been drunk before the age of 21 in the US, then something is wrong. Here in Australia the age is 18, and I had no problem getting alcohol when I was 16. Even my parents would buy me some if I was having drinks at a mate's place on the weekend.

    I think that many of us see 16 year olds as almost embryonic, however many of them are capable at making rational decisions. Hell, in the US you let them drive by themselves (here they are required to have a licensed driver by their side). Saying that, I still don't want to bump into anyone I could statutorily rape in a bar, so make your drinking age 18 like us and be done with it.
     
  9. scotchcrotch

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    Shit or get off the pot. "Decriminilization" is a term invented by politicians when they realize their laws are bullshit.

    The law shouldn't have a gray area, because as soon as it does, it leaves way for abuse and preferential treatment.

    We saw what it did with pot, going from legalized medicianal use, to recreational use within 5 years tops. With BILLIONS in wasted tax revenue and man hours. The people have spoken.
     
  10. Pap

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    Edit: Just re-read your post and realized my point made no sense and as on par with what you said.

    But to add for everyone who used the military idea, Just because you CAN make a decision like weather or not to join the army does not mean you are actually "adult enough" to do such a thing. Why they would get any more special treatment than someone who volunteers, or votes or anything else makes no sense. Are these people not serving their country and their actions considered "adult like" even if they make these decisions without "adult" logic.

    After seeing the shit my sister got in for drinking at the age of 19 I am highly for the lowering of the drinking age. She was at a house, with no intentions of every leaving, her BAC was not that high. She had to spend the night in jail. To make bond had to pee in front of someone for a drug test (there were no drugs at the house), had to take a monthly drug test, had to twice a week wake up at 6am to go take a alcohol test to make sure she hadn't drank the night before and this was random too so she had to wake up every morning to see if she was going to have to go or not, also the days after holidays. All of this for almost a year. For what? Drinking responsibly when she was 19.

    Last edit I swear: This also included a fee for each test she took, had to pay out the ass in court fees and fines. This all added up to easier a couple grand.

    Oh they also made her go to addiction meetings where she met all sorts of wonderful people (like people who were arrested on a plane because they took acid on a trip from Germany and freaked the fuck out).

    I understand some people don't get nearly as screwed in situations like this, like my ex gf who had it easier even though she had a fucking dui when she was 17, but god damn if that doesn't prove how retarded the law is I don't know what does.

    I do think it should be lowered to 19, not 18 however. For the sole purpose that there are far less 19 year olds in high school which will not increase the feasibility that a 14 year old can get someone to buy for them, as much at least.
     
  11. fourtytwo

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    -There's nothing that says the government isn't allowed to be hypocritical.
    -Age limits are arbitrary and not based in any real science, so arguing about what they should be is like arguing what the best colour to paint your room is -- there are obvious wrong answers (black), but there are a whole lot of answers that can be rationalized.
    -We should base decision making ability on scientific research. You get a brain scan or take a test or go to an interview or something, and prove that you are capable of making decisions that incorporate risk/benefit analyses. I guarantee the average age of when you're allowed to drink and join the military changes to 30. To head of the rational objections to this one, yes, it's still arbitrary. But at least the arbitrary line we've created has something to do with the individual, instead of just being a measure for how long they've been alive for.
     
  12. CYbrosis7

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    The legal drinking age should be 30, then at least you've got something to look forward to in your mundane boring existence. If you haven't got a goal in life at age 30 your pretty much drinking yourself to death by now.
     
  13. DrizztLink

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    I may well be wrong here, but from when I researched it, the problem didn't seem to be because the age was 18 alone.

    The issue was that one state would be 18, surrounded by states that were anywhere from 19 to 21. Thus, kids would roadtrip across state lines, get hammered, and then try to drive back. It seems like moving the drinking age to 21 worked less because of maturity, and more because it set an established age across the country.
     
  14. Aetius

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    Do you have the corresponding data for fatalities in the 21-24 age group?
     
  15. Muses

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    I've been searching for that, or really any data from a similar time period and age group in the U.S. to compare it to, and I can't find anything - so I guess without any sort of control group to compare it to that statistic doesn't necessarily prove a causal relationship. That number still sounds high enough to me that lowering the drinking age is probably a risky proposition, but I suppose that's more just my opinion.
     
  16. Solaris

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    It's a bullshit argument anyway.

    Your saying I shouldn't be allowed to drink, becuase some morons might kill themselves drink-driving? I'm 20, an adult, and I demand my right to drink. Fuck the safety brigade.
     
  17. Muses

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    Don't forget that in addition to themselves, those morons could also kill you, me, and our loved ones in a wreck. I don't know if that changes how you feel at all but drunk driving can, and does, affect everybody.

    If we can create new drunk-driving education programs that the younger crowds can relate to and to which they will actually listen (i.e. not MADD or other parental-type figures whom they will perceive as just another group of stuffy grownups telling them not to do fun stuff) then maybe at some point we can safely lower the drinking age and finally let everybody get drunk without worrying so much about vehicular manslaughter. But without some new, effective youth-targeted government campaigns, or at least some kind of scientific data or statistics showing that lowering the drinking age wouldn't be a huge mistake, I think that'd be very risky.
     
  18. Solaris

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    The figures he quoted had to do with young people dying. To support your argument you'll need to prove that overall road deaths went up outside the 18-25 group.

    Either way, still doesn't cut it for me. In the UK and Ireland, we can drink at 18 and I think the current level of car deaths is acceptable.

    Anyway, it still doesn't cut it for me. I firmly subscribe to the idea that an adult should be able to do what the fuck he wants as long as it doesn't harm anybody else. A 20 year old having a glass of wine with his dinner, or getting shit-faced in a bar harms no-one.
     
  19. CYbrosis7

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    Now we're heading into the political shitstorm topic that is - drunk driving.
    Guys keep it about drinking. The DUI law is for driving.
     
  20. 31stday

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    Well I live in a fucktarded province in this regard. Saskatchewan's drinking age is 19, whereas the provinces beside it have drinking ages of 18. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, but fortunately or unfortunately my town is right beside the border which leads to everyone going to a bar for their 18th birthday. I really don't think the drinking age does much, as anyone who wants alcohol here can easily get it through friends or parents. It's surprising how little parents care about their children drinking actually, and the cops don't really seem to care about the underage drinking. They're always out on Friday and Saturday nights, and if you're going to a party you have a 30% chance or so of getting pulled over and checked for alcohol, but they never seem to do anything about it, although I don't know if they can. Case in point, one time I was going to a party across town and the vehicle was absolutely stacked with alcohol, we literally filled up the trunk so people had to hide it in their jackets. One of my friends obviously was holding a shitload as his whole body was pointy from beer bottles, but the cops didn't care whatsoever.

    Then they asked where we were going, the driver said to friend's house and the cop proceeds to say the exact fucking location of the party, and he tells us to have a fun time but be safe. Then, as we get there, another cop is just standing outside the property where the party is watching people carry booze in and is doing nothing about it, well except for one friend who always gets his booze poured out did.

    Probably an awful story, but whatever. I don't see an increase in drinking and driving whatsoever compared to a few parties I've been to in the U.S.