Very interesting read about COVID, vaccines, and what happens next. https://twitter.com/eliaseythorsson/status/1424011542195023878
Bret Weinstein and Sam Harris have been engaging in a back-and-forth podcast war on vaccines. Binary, I think the first 15 minutes of what Sam Harris says here you will strongly agree with: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zksPSarLx64&t=944s I agree with most of what Harris says, with the exception that public debate is irresponsible in a crisis. I think that's the exact time to have the debate, because if you wait until after everyone has decided then it's too late.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but to think that just because you have a platform to express it means that your opinion should be given weight reeks of entitlement. To be frank, you have completely missed the mark with your interpretation of lots of the data and statistics you have presented. That’s not even really a dig against you- there are a fucking ton of confounding variables that are present, and if you don’t know what to look for (most people don’t), it is really hard to correctly decipher data. The crux of many of your libertarian arguments don’t carry water here. You are saying that not wearing a mask and getting vaccinated is like not wearing a seat belt, it only effects the person involved. That’s fundamentally untrue- imagine if anyone who got into a car accident without a seatbelt catapulted directly into a random passerby and their family. Wearing a mask is about protecting others, not just yourself. Yes, you need to wear it right. No, that doesn’t mean that because some people don’t that it is okay. If an unvaccinated person infects a vaccinated person, the vaccinated person might not get critically ill (though there is the chance that they get lasting organ damage, long covid, etc.), but they could go home and infect a family member that is immunocompromised. Additionally, people in general are being a bit ridiculous about scientists changing their statements. In politics, if people change their minds it’s flip flopping and people give them shit. In science, and especially so during a crisis, facts have half-lives. What is right today could be proven wrong tomorrow, and vice versa. That means that we are doing the best we can, and that it takes work to stay up to date. There is still a ton of misinformation being propagated, such as the whole six foot thing- if I remember correctly, that was based off TB, which needs to get further into the lungs to lead to an infection, and not just an available mucosal membrane. Covid is significantly more contagious.
if it’s a true crisis, you don’t have time to debate. The time to debate is before the crisis, when you can go through every contingency and establish protocols and a hierarchy. You figure out who fills what rolls in those crisis, debate about it all you want, and get prepared. That way when a crisis hits, you don’t stand around debating something that has been settled, wasting precious minutes, hours, even days. When a true crisis hits, if dealing with that particular topic isn’t your professional specialty, you shut the fuck up and listen to people for whom it is. which is what we should have been doing from the beginning
He's right. 99% of the people in Public are not qualified to have an opinion in or experience in dealing with crisis. They should not be given a platform or place in the process, other than "do what you're told."
Nah, fuck that. Look around the world, there are huge protests about the restrictions right now, imagine what percentage of people are saying fuck this but aren't at the protests to people who say "shut up, do what you're told." The Governments, the Public Health Apparatus and the Media have done such irreparable damage to their reputations and they operate at such a trust deficit, I don't know how they ever hope to come back from this? People who hold your opinion and believe somehow magically you are going to or even should coerce people to mask up or get vaccinated at this point are operating in some delusional world. Who is going to make them do it? The police? Facebook? It ain't happening. It's over. I'm guessing that the 50% of the American public that isn't fully vaccinated isn't going to go back for the jab and either 1. Going to lie about it or 2. Tell people who talk like they do on this board to go fuck themselves and stay in their lane. Before anyone bothers attacking me as anti-mask or anti-vax. I wear a mask to work everyday because I have to. I have had the virus, so I am waiting for the booster but plan to get it this fall after having antibody tests. These are personal choices, everyone has choices to make. All this bullshit about protecting those who can't get vaxed or are compromised, it's sad that they are in these positions but that is life. You aren't going to fix this problem and you know it, so just stop.
Unless I’m missing it, I haven’t heard anyone advocate for seriously forcing the vaccine on people. “Force” as in tying someone down to a gurney and putting a needle in their arm. That would just be a laughable violation of civil liberties. But saying someone can’t go into a post office or the DMV unless they’re vaccinated is a fairly reasonable measure. I agree that the CDC is kind of a mess and that they’re moratorium on evictions is just a silly amount of agency overreach. It wasn’t a coincidence that it occurred when SCOTUS is out of session. That said, authority figures exist and not all opinions matter. If I’m in a burning building, I’m going to listen to the fire marshal on what to do vs. the bum under a cardboard box in the alley next door. Even with the CDC’s issues, they’re not perfect, but they’re the best people to listen to. There just isn’t anything in it for them to be deliberately wrong about stuff. Im sure there will be a post-mortem review of its abilities and scope, but for now it’s what we have.
I'm not suggesting giving every random dude a platform (although with social media they technically already have it), but the idea that there should be no debate, no exchange of ideas and just do what the government says because the pharmaceutical companies have done their due diligence (and we indemnified them anyway)? How did we get here? How can so many people who are educated and involved look at this complex problem and say, "Do what they tell you to do and if you disagree we'll ignore or censor it?" If anyone watched that Harris clip, he addresses this very thing. Of all the public intellectuals that post quite a bit, I probably agree with Sam Harris the most in general about whatever topic is being discussed. That he would prefer to not have any discussion about this, and thinks it's irresponsible for scientists with expertise in this field to post their dissenting opinions, just blows me away. He's right; there's an almost religious component to this and logic isn't going to persuade people. That so many want the individual's choice removed and advocate for much greater government powers is what's surprised me most about this whole disaster. EDIT: Not the Gestapo coming to your house armed with needles, no. But if it becomes illegal to travel, use public services, physically enter your place of work, attend school or shop indoors without proof that you're vaccinated, that would have the same effect.
You have to fix it, because, at the very least, it's crushing the medical system. ICU's and their staff barely survived the first wave, and now an even bigger wave of unvaccinated is here. Just go look at the stupid that is Florida.
I think it would be much more palatable to have a discussion within the scientific community if this whole thing hadn't been politicized from the beginning. Also, which scientist should be having this discussion, and how/where should they be having it? In the podcast/news world there seem to be a lot of people that are experts in a field and believe that makes them smart enough to expound their opinions in areas that are way out of their scope of practice. Joe Rogan and the CEO of Black Rifle Coffee aren't the right people to be having that conversation. The only people who's opinion that should be listened to our experts in immunology, virology, vaccines etc. Also, dissent is fine, but when setting public policy you should be using the consensus opinion of the experts, will investigating any safety concerns that arise.
Billboards aren’t necessary, everybody will understand the minute they start driving through Jacksonville. City motto: “Oh REALLY, Dayton? You think you suck?”
The biggest problem during all this is that there are so many people making decisions they aren’t qualified to make, but that impact so many people. And stupid people making stupid decisions that directly contribute to deaths. thanks to the Internet and social media, everyone has been given a platform from which to shout their opinion. The issue is that people think that opinion MATTERS. If I don’t get vaccinated for some reason I don’t fully understand, that’s not just affecting me — that stupid decision is impacting everyone else I come into contact with, who might have a different opinion. it would be one thing if people could say “I don’t want a vaccine” and it affects just them. But every person who says that, is also making a choice for others who might not have made that choice. How selfish do you have to be?
Had my second dose of Pfizer last Thursday. Woke up the next morning with a slight headache but that could have been the way I slept with my neck, having heard some of the stories about how people got sick after their second does I'm feeling pretty happy I didn't encounter the same response.
The Houston area wastewater management has been keeping tabs of the virus in their wastewater and can roughly predict the future 2-4 weeks in advance. https://abc13.com/houston-coronavir...ls-waste-indicating-covid-hot-spots/10932599/
We are getting to the point that the largest unvaccinnated population is children. We have several hospital systems more overwhelmed than the first 2 waves, and the pediatrics departments are suddenly major weaknesses. I'd say we are 3 weeks away from schools shutting down due to outbreaks. Anti Vax bullshit will lead to dead kids, and thwarted education. From the bottom of my heart, fuck those people. If I get a chance to say it to their face, it might make the news, but they deserve it.
Last I knew, less than 50% of our county was vaccinated ( Upstate NY ) and with the rampant, willful ignorance, I don't see that changing much. The county is largely Republican, including county government. The head guy is doing his best to get word out about vaccinations and to do the right thing. Yesterday he issued an order that makes masks mandatory in all county buildings again, no matter vaccination status. He is taking a world of shit from not only the ignorant, but now a county legislator, who is an absolute jackass on a good day, is attacking him online for it. And the legislator has a special needs kid among 4-5 others who are potentially in the virus's sights. Were it not for them, I would absolutely wish for this asshole to get sick. It's very tiresome, and it seems the worse it gets, the more they double down on stupidity.