Well I hope it goes without saying that I don't think ALL women think or feel one exact same way, but in general, for the most part, when it comes to courting and sex, they are the comparatively passive partner, and they prefer it that way. The possibility of violence is both scary and exciting, and I don't think most straight males understand that mentality. I also said the mechanics of sex happen to women (but both parties are having sex), and those mechanics are inherently violent because they obviously are. It's referred to as pounding, because the guy pounds. There's a fucker and a fuckee (possibly two, if he's a lucky fucker). Not gonna presume anything about your sex life, but when done right, women usually talk about a 'good pain' down there that lasts. Have you ever, post-coitus, felt your junk and thought, "Damn, my dick sure hurts in such a good way"? What about your first time -- did you have any ounce of fear (in terms of pain, not fear that you'll somehow do it wrong)? Pseudo sensitive guy? Gender enlightened? Honestly have no idea what you're talking about. Not saying women are fragile and helpless. I'm very aware that most have working vocal chords, have learned basic English, and have the ability to at any time say no. I'm not saying women should be sexually passive, I'm saying that in general, they are. And that's ok, but it can add confusion. Verbal consent shouldn't be necessary, but it's possible to communicate very clearly and still have one partner (usually the woman) feel uncomfortable with what went down. We're saying the same thing. Your example of one partner freezing up without the other knowing is a great example that I didn't come up with. I agree -- no one is to blame but it can still be traumatic. But do you think the trauma ratio in consensual circumstances is even close to even between the sexes? Boy rape, women perpetrating -- you're reading A LOT more than what I've written. And this might be tough to believe, but I wasn't looking for advice on how to get a first kiss. I further agree with your bringing up biological/evolutionary factors, something I should have brought up initially, because that's what I think this is based on, which is why it's so tough for pretty much everyone (especially media and hash tag activists, something I'm not accusing any of you of being) to talk about. I mean, shit, think of how much rape must have happened the farther you go back in our species' history. I'd bet that almost none of us would exist if one of our ancestors wasn't raped, at some point, tens of thousands of years ago. That is FUCKED up, but it's nonetheless deeply imprinted on us. I think it's worthwhile to at least acknowledge it, and try to figure out how it plays out in modern life.
You invited the female board members to explain how you might be talking out of your ass. Like I said, I've agreed with the vast majority of what you've said in this thread, but here's your exact words: There's literally nothing about that sentence that's true, or okay. So if you misspoke, hey. It happens. But if you legitimately think this on some level, then you might want to do some meditation or something. I have no doubt as to your points about our history as a species being rife with one form of assault or another. Also, lest we forget, there are no moral absolutes. What is perfectly acceptable in one culture and time period is abhorrent in another. I don't think we can lean on evolution to explain modern sexual behaviour to any satisfactory degree, though. While certain behaviours might be evolved or genetic, it's up to us to decide right now what's acceptable. Yes, broadly speaking a larger majority of women are submissive in the bedroom. And yes, a large number of perpetrators are men, given the size and strength difference. I don't think we're arguing those points. I also don't think they should be used as a crutch. How we educate people on consent needs to change, and sadly I can't think of an easy way to make that happen.
Can we drop this idea that women never initiate anything? I know that's not quite what you guys are saying, but that's what it sounds like at times. And I guess I'm not totally clear on how this situation is supposed to work, but someone freezing up for a moment is one thing. It's kind of hard to fuck someone for an hour straight after they go comatose and not notice anything wrong. I mean, I don't know, I think I would be way too weirded out, but I'm guessing I'm missing exactly what it is you're talking about here. You can't freeze up and still react like a normal person, right? I guess a guy could be a rapid shooter. You know, sneak it in like a champ for those 15 ambiguous seconds of joy. And lots of non-violent things make people sore. Sure, sex can be violent, in a good or a bad way, but just sex in general? Sorry, still not seeing it. I'm not sure this distinction is actually important though. I do get the whole being uncomfortable with how people had sex, or what one partner did, but in terms of just plain consent as to doing it, that still sounds kind of hard to miss in my mind.