Adult Content Warning

This community may contain adult content that is not suitable for minors. By closing this dialog box or continuing to navigate this site, you certify that you are 18 years of age and consent to view adult content.

Boardwalk Empire

Discussion in 'TV Shows' started by dubyu tee eff, Sep 17, 2010.

  1. Mike Ness

    Mike Ness
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,003
    Excellent review. The scene between Nucky and Margret was amazing, showing just how incredibly talented Buscemi is because he did it by himself. I can't imagine him not receiving an emmy nod for his work in this series.

    The thing with Eli and Jimmy, I don't necessarily disagree, but Jimmy doesn't "owe all his positive things in his life to Nucky." The man is clearly intelligent, (Nucky got him into Princeton, I'm sure he had to have been smart for that) and if he wanted too could have made in on his own in Chicago. He probably could have made it anywhere else because of drive and intelligence. He however has something to prove to Nucky, drawing him back to him.

    I think that has to be the point with Eli although you think he would be more appreciative. It could be that Buscemi has made Nucky a little to likable so it's hard to feel sorry for sappy Eli who without his brother doesn't strike me as someone who would have amounted to much.
     
  2. iczorro

    iczorro
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    107
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    3,544
    Location:
    The Island
    I haven't watched since the fourth episode or so. I have them all saved on my DVR. I find this series to be like Mad Men in that respect. Not something I NEED to see on a week to week basis, but very compelling when you save them up and watch them back to back.

    As long as someone tells me when the season finale is, I can contribute to the aftermath thoughts...
     
  3. Parker

    Parker
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    90
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2010
    Messages:
    5,841
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    This could be true, but I'm biased from the actor and his character in The Wire. What I meant to layers is that there has to be some backstory in regards into what makes him so loyal to Nucky. Yes, money is key to everything Nucky does, but does Chalky White seem like piles of cash are the ONLY thing that would buy his loyalty? No way. Something REALLY fucking interesting had to happen to established that relationship for a black guy in the 1920s with full knowledge of white people killing his father, to become loyal business partners.

    Also with Jimmy, I don't exactly know what you mean by "generic PTSD." WWI was by far the most vile and eye opening war period, tanks, machine guns, trenches, death gases. There was also no to little understanding of PTSD, so if you're comparing his portrayal to it to portrayals of it in recent times that might not be as fair. Really not sure how many good movies there are of post WWI PTSD we can reference against. Also, there weren't pictures or video coming over so people back at home were even more clueless of what the hell happened over there, which probably amplifies it. He was in largest and most brutal war of their modern era, and you expect him to man up after a month of being a mobster in Chicago? That's just not plausible.

    I agree with what you said about Nucky and Jimmy/Eli's relationship to him, but ambition is the drive, and the ambition of the royal court has killed many kings. Boardwalk Empire, Roman Empire...yep. Both Eli and Jimmy know that Nucky is not a God. They've seen him bleed, even a little. With the Commodore they see an opportunity and they're going to take it. This is probably angle the show is going to take.
     
  4. KIMaster

    KIMaster
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    1
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,870
    They don't make it clear in the series, but getting into a school like Princeton was relatively easy back in the 1910s. Very few people went to college, even those who were smart enough to do so, and fewer still could afford the luxury of paying for it instead of working full-time. Also, there was an "old boys" network where just about any decently connected New Englander could get into a plum Ivy League school.

    It's nothing like the insane competition for university today, where only about 10% of qualified applicants are accepted to Princeton.

    I expect him to hide his true emotions and be cold and distant, which has been Jimmy's MO ever since he went to Chicago. Why suddenly break it now, except to write a reconciliation scene? Your lecturing on WW1 aside, that's exactly what war does to people.

    It doesn't make them more likely to lash out and break down. Instead, it robs them of their emotions entirely, good and bad. Also, the dialogue spouting from Jimmy's mouth was putrid. Really bad, especially for such an important scene, and that can't be denied even if you buy the premise.

    The problem is the timing. Why the hell now? Nucky has just established his position in Atlantic City more than ever, gave Eli a cut of the million dollars Rothstein paid him, brought him back as the Sheriff, and has the ear of the fucking President of the United States, Warren G. Harding.

    Eli is in his mid thirties and Nucky is in his early forties. Of course he is going to feel resentment. He has for the majority of his adult life. But if he didn't do anything for the last 10+ years, when the Commodore wasn't some wheel-chair bound, irrelevant cripple, why the hell is he going to do anything now, after Nucky, the King, has just lavished more upon him than ever, and shown him His Royal Favor, and is at his most powerful?

    And hell, I can understand if a strong challenger came along to unseat Nucky from the Atlantic City throne. Unlikely, but plausible. But the goddamn Commodore, who is weaker now than he was at any point since he got out of jail? Eli isn't stupid.

    My point is, I can theoretically buy Eli back-stabbing Nucky. But not under the circumstances and for the reasons we've seen.

    As for Jimmy, that's just laughable. He has hated his biological father his whole life, and loved Nucky as his real one. We're supposed to buy that he might switch on a dime why? Because Nucky got his hands dirty delivering Gillian to Commodore, which the Commodore told him to do in the first place? Or because he likes miserable, racist cantankerous fucks that his beloved mother tried to unsuccessfully poison? It doesn't make much sense.
     
  5. Kubla Kahn

    Kubla Kahn
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    468
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    9,038
    I am as apprehensive as the next to get another PTSD character in any show. I think they have at least tried to show it in less in your face manner. You know he has it and they make reference to it, particularly the episode where he found his one eye counter part, but nothing over the top. At some point it was going to have to come to a head. I didn't like that he broke down in front of his wife and it being one of the reasons she is so detached from him. A bad way to have her reason out a lesbo affair.

    Though they did spring a lot of back stabbing into this episode it has been building for most of the season. I don't see it as implausible that two people who's whole lives depend on Nucky could be resentful, particularly because Nucky does lord that fact over them quite a bit. Eli is clearly jealous and over his head, siding with a weak and feeble old man wouldn't be a far stretch from his usual ineptness. I certainly see this as the better of the two relationships that might turn (like they set up the Rothstein thing this might work itself out as well). I think Nucky is and has always has been resentful of how horrible his dad treated him and the favor he showed Eli. Eli gets brow beaten by Nucky and all the while Nucky has ultimate control over him, firing and rehiring, paying him off, not trying to explain the situation out more.

    Next season should be great because we have Rothstein and Nucky as major business partners and Van Alden square in the middle of AC after them. That is a quality combination.
     
  6. KIMaster

    KIMaster
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    1
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,870
    Funny timing; I have been discussing this part of the show at length with a friend recently.

    I actually don't have a problem with Eli trying to backstab Nucky...just not under these circumstances. Why does the resentment boil over now all of a sudden, when he's a 35+ year old man with a wife and four kids, and not years earlier?

    And he couldn't have picked a worst possible time; Nucky is at the absolute zenith of his power right now. The fucking President owes him. Even the most reviled dictator is safe on his throne as long as the usurpers don't have an opportunity.

    So no opening, and no burning ambition from Eli to attain greater power in Atlantic City means the plot is nothing but lazy, deus ex machina writing.

    However, what makes it REALLY bad is the fact that he so easily brings along Jimmy. Eli has always disliked Jimmy and been jealous of the attention he received from Nucky. He hates the kid, and yet, he's fine with the Commodore wanting to make him the new ruler of Atlantic City? Seriously?

    Even worse, think of the incredible danger he is putting himself in. If Jimmy declines the invitation (reasonable he's only hated the Commodore for his entire life), Eli is fucked. Yet, we're supposed to believe he so easily puts his life in the hands of someone that he reviles?

    That is pure lunacy.
     
  7. Mike Ness

    Mike Ness
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,003
    Exactly. Although I had a little bit of an issue with Eli trying to backstab Nucky from the start this just hammers the point home. Nucky is now on the verge of something huge, meaning Jimmy and Eli will be there to reap the benefits tons of cash is coming in (who knows what they got from the Rothstien deal even if it was 50-100k that was ten times the average mans salary) so now they have just HAD ENOUGH??

    After Jimmy found out the truth about Nucky's involvement in his childhood that was the straw that broke the camels back? Eli get's hired and rehired so now he decides he's had enough? I realize you could argue the previous points at length if you wanted (Jimmy's feeling of betrayal, Eli feeling used and more like a pawn then ever) but could they really think that they would be better off without Nucky?

    I told KImaster that maybe Buscemi made Nucky to likable so it was hard to believe those men would conspire against him, however it could also be that Eli and Jimmy just don't stike me as power hungry enough to want to take over. The Commodore? Sure but not the other two.
     
  8. KIMaster

    KIMaster
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    1
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,870
    Here's the most hilarious and ridiculous part of the "Jimmy might betray Nucky" storyline; Jimmy can't forgive Nucky, who he has loved as his true father his entire life, for committing the sin of shepherding young Gillian under the Commodore's order. Okay, fine.

    However, he FORGIVES the Commodore, who he has HATED his entire life, for the much greater sin of orchestrating all that to begin with.

    Because that is what the viewer would have to believe for Jimmy to even consider a conspiracy offer, let alone accept it. This doesn't strike anyone else as unspeakably dumb?
     
  9. Slambrarian

    Slambrarian
    Expand Collapse
    Experienced Idiot

    Reputation:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    135
    My dad and I were talking about the show the other day and he was telling me that his dad used to tell him stories about the Lanzetti brothers - aka the D'Alessio brothers. I love that they take this bit of fact/history and throw it into the show. I will be interested to see who else pops up next season.