This seems to have sparked some debate and understandibly so. Below are a few posts I pulled from the R&R thread about it. FOCUS: There are very different opinions when it comes to shit like this. What's yours and why? As far as I'm concerned, as I said in my rep to the poster of that last one...Seriously? This is the US anyone can wear whatever shirt whenever they want. It's not like we ask them not to wear something specific on any other day. I'd go deeper but the BD would post a pic of me stomping around smashing things with my vagina, or something. WARNING: Do not turn this entire thread into a slap fight. Be intelligent with your posts and try not to pee on each other too much.
What kills me about this is it's a MEXICAN holiday, one which isn't even a big deal in Mexico. Besides, it celebrates Mexico's victory over the French. I could see people being pissed if the kids wore French flags to school, but come on. These retards are acting like the kids wore Nazi flag shirts on the anniversary of D-day.
From what I wrote in the drunk thread, the quotes being from another news story about it: 1. Cinco de Mayo is rapidly becoming about as Mexican as St Paddy's Day is Irish. Not that there's anything wrong with that. 2. Considering that it commemorates a Mexican military victory against the French, why are American flags considered incendiary? 3. - the kids were sent home not because they were wearing flags but because they didn't put them away or turn them inside out or whatever. Fox wouldn't run a story about the weepy parents of the kids who brought Mexican paraphernalia to class. 4. As a matter of curiosity, how many students at the school aren't American citizens? It just seems a remarkably odd comment that for some reason seems to equate "these are American kids" with "these are white kids" or "these are good kids" or "these kids aren't troublemakers". By definition, "Mexican-American", as much as I hate these hyphenated combinations of an ethnicity and citizenship, means you're an American.
Aren't we tired of this by now? Isn't it boring yet? The right whining about the loss of national identity and free speech to foreign cultural invasion, the left whining about ethnic sensitivity and respect. It's so fucking tiresome. The same arguments over and over and over again from the same know-nothing assholes who abandon rational dialogue for worthless emotional appeal. It's not even an argument. Two sides wait their turn to yell at the top of their lungs about the same fucking crap while the opposition shove their heads up their asses and hum a tune. The whole thing is just a pathetic outlet for feelings of anger and frustration that most people are too fucking stupid to properly articulate. Why bother? What's the point? What changes? The answers: Don't bother. There is no point. Nothing ever changes. But, by all means, continue.
I agree with BP, in that this shit never ends up actually changing a thing. It's more alike to watching a dog chase its tail. I chalk it up to the rampant running hypersensitivity of society, over protective adults pushed by whatever forces they are be that a job, a supervisor or a fucking pissy soccer Mom in a huff because her kid was cut from the team....FOR SUCKING. Ya know, how it should be. When I was a kid, guess what? We stood everyday, with our hands over our hearts and the entire school said the Pledge of Allegiance. If I got out of line I was punished. I had a job at 16 and it was then I started paying some form of rent (The phone bill. My Dad figured since I was the one on it the most I should pay, and I did! *GASP* Terrible I know! Call CSD!).
You didn't have the fancy enshrined rights that kids these days do because the Magna Carta wasn't signed until you were 24?
Smartass. You're goin' down. This could be a good thread if taken seriously. Can we give that a try and stay on focus too! Woo!
That's the thing, though. The majority of Americans are those vocal retards. That's the problem. This is our country in a fucking nutshell. A gaggle of morons who are thoroughly convinced of the primacy of their personal opinions, so they wear American flag t-shirts on Cinco de Mayo, or protest people who wear American flag t-shirts on Cinco de Mayo, or fucking comment about the debate over American flag t-shirts on Cinco de Mayo. It's a thinly veiled attempt to stoke the hot-button immigration issue in an easily digested, unambiguous context. Everybody gets to pick a side and start screaming, and no one is accountable for how completely. fucking. retarded the entire thing is.
I don't understand how, in the mind of the staff, they equated the American flag to "I hate Mexicans"? How does wearing a shirt showing the symbol of the country you are a citizen of and are residing in as insulting? Will I get in trouble for standing in a candy store eating a chocolate bar on National Jellybean Day? WTF?
I thought this was gonna be about this: <a class="postlink" href="http://cbs2chicago.com/local/old.navy.shooting.2.1685099.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://cbs2chicago.com/local/old.navy.s ... 85099.html</a> But, hey, it's close enough, right? Idiots doing stupid shit that harms/annoys others for no good reason. I think this is one of those pointless overreactions. I doubt the boys were doing it to be dicks, unless they went around pointing at their shirts all day and telling the Mexicans to swim/run back to where they came from while taking a shit on a taco and wiping their ass with a Mexican flag. Thus, the teacher should not have told them to invert their shirts. Either way, don't we have some sort of amendment in that Constitution thing protecting people who feel like wearing a shirt with a non-offensive image on it? Though I am a US citizen, I was born in Eastern Europe. If anyone offended my home country, I would chalk it up to them being a fuckwit with too much free time and move on with my life. Maybe I just don't have the same nationalism as some of these fools...if I did, I'd probably go back to Europe instead of bitching about it here in the US.
OK I’ll cop to that rep comment. You see, that is a point on which we fundamentally disagree. I believe that the vast majority of Americans are reasonable, thinking people who are just drown out by the retards on the left and right of the spectrum. Think about it, what quote makes a better headline, “I think we should be fair in our immigration policy while maintaining the security of our country” or “they took our jobs, show us your papers”. I think that the minority just keep screaming so as to keep themselves and their “cause” at the forefront of public attention, and when most Americans see this clusterfuck they begin to develop the opinion that there is a black and white line to every issue and that everyone with a well reasoned argument on either side must be in the minority. I am more than willing to allow for the possibility that I may be looking through rose colored glasses, but I would like to believe better of my fellow humans ability to think.
If someone is seriously OFFENDED by the flag of this country, they do not belong here. I don't even understand how anyone can disagree with that. I doubt the kids were doing it to be dicks, but if they were, WHO CARES? They have the right to wear a shirt with their country's flag on it. The administrators at that school should be flogged.
I live not far from where this happened, and a lot of people are waaaay to up in arms about it. However, some general observations from this citizen: The tensions in this area are high when it comes to race. The town where I lived until a few months ago, and continue to work is 80% Hispanic. Until a few years ago it was much more racially mixed, however a few years ago there was a massive influx of Hispanic immigrants, 50% of which were illegal. The increasing political pressure caused the town to turn politically, very immigrant friendly, and the number of fields around the area kept it so that the once transitory field worker population was able to settle down. The population that is stated for this city is ~50,000. However that figure has been estimated at being below by many thousand people. The infrastructure of the city can't handle it, and we aren't getting the tax revenue and federal and state money to keep the city in the well fixed up state. The city decays, and we aren't able to fix it up. This is one source of conflict. The city, along with many more along the central California coast became "sanctuary cities". This means that there can be no question of immigration status when making an arrest, or any other time. Increased populations of immigrants increases gang populations almost 100% across the board. I will not discuss the socio-economic and cultural reasons behind this, but it is incredibly true that this happens around here. We, and the neighboring cities are having growing gang violence, and there aren't enough police to handle the increase in violence, and there isn't enough funding. The ease of committing crime begets more crime and strengthens the gangs. The gangs are the main reason that the tensions are so high in this area, and one of the issues behind sending this kids home. If you throw rocks at a hornet's nest, are you going to be surprised if you get stung? At first I was sympathetic. Just a kid wearing a shirt with an American Flag on it, no harm, no foul. But then I saw the picture accompanying the article, and I realized that it was much more than that. Look at the douche that is wearing the flag covered shorts. These kids were clearly trying to provoke a reaction, and with strong gang presences in high schools around here, it wouldn't be surprising to see them get jumped, either by kids associated with a gang, or even gang members that were alerted by a sibling about them.(This has happened many times at my mother's school in Los Angeles, where a student will have an older sibling bring fellow gang members to either intimidate or attack students) The school ultimately chose to try any keep an incident from cropping up that could put them at liability. The Arizona immigration bill has brought the issue to a head, and has thus increased racial tensions even more. Sure kids have a right to self expression, but the school has to step in and keep their students safe and to keep problems down. This is a lot of the HURRR FLAAAG!! YAAAY FLAG!! AMERICA!! bullshit that people use to try and obfuscate the issues I have mentioned above. In a racially charged atmosphere, especially during a time when tensions are extra high because of recent political events that are far beyond the understanding of a bunch of high school kids, the administrator has a decision to make. "Do we let them continue wearing the shirt, and risk them getting an ass kicking, and then getting sued by the parents?" "Do we ask them to remove the shirts and stay?" "Do we send them home"? They asked the students to change, or at least turn the shirts inside out. Problem solved, and the kids should have said, well, I guess our stupid stunt is over. But instead they refused, and they were sent home, and of course they went on the news to try and get a meal ticket. A lot of people who are more educated about the history and tradition behind Cinco de Mayo correctly point out that the holiday is a minor one in Mexico, and largely not celebrated outside of Puebla, where it is marked with minor fesitivities. However small or a celebration it may be, that is largely unknown here in the US where the Battle of Puebla has little to no coverage in schools, as it is not a particularly decisive moment in Mexican history. All that it is seen up here is a time when there are more Corona commercials, and commercials for other inherently "Mexican" products (chips, salsa, margaritas, and so on). Therefore to Americans it is seen as a day of Mexican culture, and these kids decided to start a little culture war. Their intent was to clearly start shit, no matter what the little cunts say.
Oh a special interest group gets offended and cries like a little bitch to the news media. Shocking With the recent passing of SB1070 here in the Arizona and the subsequent flood of media coverage and protests with mexican flags abounding, followed by the claims of us being racist by the whole of California it is not at all suprising that this happened. My opinion is that if the students did not violate the school dress code, the situation was not properly handled. The students wearing the shirts probably wore them for attention and to make a statement and they got what they wanted and they got it on a national level. Good for them, they made a plan, carried the plan out and got the intended result. If they really wanted to make a statement they should have worn French flag teeshirts. (see history of cinco de mayo) Punishing students for making a statement within the guidelines of a written dress code is absurd, it discourages thinking outside the box and it is an abuse of authority to protect the possibility it may offend those of hispanic decent who celebrate the quasi holiday, that for all intends and purposes is marketed by beer companies to generate a profit.
It should probably be noted that this is not a "punishment" as such. They were simply sent home; there was no suspension or detentions or what have you handed out. Apparently, schools, at least in California, aren't allowed to punish students for engaging in activities that would be protected by the bill of rights outside of school grounds.
I don't have a problem with expressing your individuality, but what these guys did was fucking stupid. The school administrators were right in sending them home simply to prevent someone getting the shit kicked out of them by a bunch of pissed off Mexicans. I guarantee if a douchey Mexican wore a Mexican flag shirt at a 4th of July parade and threw it in the faces of a bunch of pissed off rednecks, he'd be beaten within an inch of his life.
Do you have proof for this? Does anyone? Because this is a common argument employed by both sides, that the degeneration of whatever perception of American culture you've adopted is somehow increasing at a rapid rate. It sounds like a worthlessly subjective statement, but if you've got evidence, I'd love to see it. Unless you're talking about the shift in media sensationalism, of course. In which case I agree with you. Fifteen years ago, a story like this would never have made it to the forefront of the national press, nor would such extremist viewpoints (right and left) be so readily embraced by mainstream news outlets.
I agree with our resident crossdresser that this is primarily a safety issue, and no doubt these kids did it on purpose as a stunt (pimped out shoes with USA colors...fucking really?). If they were busted for wearing polos with a simple flag on the breast, I might be a little more sympathetic. On the flip said, the "offended" Mexican-Americans should know better than to give a shit for someone cramping their style during their not-so-significant holiday. Just your run-of-the-mill situation of high school kids on both sides of an issue being ignorant twats. This reminds me of last week, on the last day of finals, when a local middle school took a field trip on campus. I'm sitting in the dining hall when the chaperone calls over a 7th-grader wearing a Duke jersey over a matching blue t-shirt, and discretely told him to take off the jersey, because it's "offensive to the students who go here." Meanwhile, I (playing the role of Mexican-American) rightfully didn't give a shit, because it's just a damn shirt (it might have been an issue if we were at UNC). Still, I wanted to buy her a beer on general principle for sticking it to Dook. Remember back in the day when being sent home from school was awesome, not a punishment? That was nice.