Black People Should Know Not To Wear Hoodies

Common mistake. Zimmerman wasn't told to not follow Martin, he was told that he didn't need to.

And, it might have happened anyways. All we know is that Zimmerman followed Martin for about 20 seconds. Maybe longer, we don't know.

But, if the defense theory is that Martin, pissed off about Zimmerman following him, turned around, went back, and attacked him, that could still have happened without Zimmerman following him.

Zimmerman sees a suspicious looking Martin, stops his truck, calls the police. Martin sees Zimmerman looking at him and calling someone, and assumes Zimmerman is calling the police. Martin takes off running, and now this time Zimmerman doesn't follow at all. ...Who's to say Martin still wouldn't have been pissed off and gone back to confront Zimmerman?

 

I just wanted to point out that Zimmerman's history of violence, as you put it, was him shoving a cop, while ostensibly drunk off of his ass. Judging by all of this board's ability to enjoy liquor, this is a Tuesday night for some of you.

 

It now makes total sense why Crown defends Trayvon without knowing dick. He is a thug too! And we all know "thugs" stick together.

 

So do you need to be a Florida resident to shoot black folk?

That's the part I'm a little unclear on.

 

It's also the law in Indiana, Georgia, and Washington. (In Washington it's just part of the case law, not a statute.) Iowa, Nebraska, and Virginia are considering adding Stand Your Ground statutes, and Washington is considering codifying the current law.

That said, if someone is on top of you and punching you, and you're in reasonable fear of death or serious bodily harm, you can use deadly force under the vanilla self defense rule.

 

You don't have to be able to see the videos. Just read the text about the videos. Search Huffington Post, Fox News, ABC news sites, whatever is your favorite. It won't be possible to get an unbiased version - just read the bias from both sides and try to draw your own conclusion.

It's possible that if the suspicious person had done something criminal, and the patrolling person did nothing to prevent it, especially knowing how long it takes the police to respond to 911 calls, he would've felt liable for not acting. That would be one reason to approach the suspect.

 

Oh, yeah that distinction totally makes it ok -- my bad. If only the 911 operator had said "don't" instead of "we don't need you to", Zimmerman would TOTALLY have listened!

Huh? Then how the hell did the confrontation happen?

So because he was drunk, that makes it ok. And let's just ignore the part where his ex filed a restraining order alleging domestic violence which, combined with the no-big-deal-cuz-he-was-drunk cop shoving is the "history" part I was referring to.

And of course, the thing we should ignore most is any discussion relating to (the disgusting lack of) gun control laws. That played no part at all.

 

Fuck it. Never mind.

 

Martin stops, turns around, and walks back to where Zimmerman was.

 

Well you at least agree that Zimmerman didn't strangle him to death, don't you?

 

So because he didn't follow him TWICE, it's Trayvon's fault for confronting a stranger that was following him.

Makes perfect sense.

 

This is the dumbest post of the thread so far. No one around here owns mirrors. They don't judge anyone, and the lack of mirror means they don't even judge themselves.

 

You missed the context. I was responding to the notion that if Zimmerman hadn't of followed Martin, the confrontation never would have happened. It still might have. Martin could have gone back to confront Zimmerman even if Zimmerman never followed him.

 

Zimmerman was walking back to his SUV. Martin came up behind him and they had a confrontation that got physical.

I'm not condoning the fact that he put his hands on a police officer, but I can definitely see how one can make a dumb decision when UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF ALCOHOL. And I ignored the domestic violence thing because generally speaking, if a guy beats the shit out of his girlfriend, the one thing he isn't doing is filing for a restraining order against her.

 

Sorry, still not getting it. You're saying that if Zimmerman had stayed in his car, instead of leaving when told, uh, "we don't need you to follow him", that it's likely that Martin would have came back and confronted him anyways? If I'm reading you correctly (apologies if I'm not), isn't that a hugely presumptuous, and completely irrelevant hypothetical?

 

Not likely.
POSSIBLE.

 

This.

I was refuting the claim that the incident wouldn't have happened if Zimmerman didn't go after Martin. It still could have happened. Maybe less likely to have happened, but we just don't know, so it's wrong to claim Zimmerman going after him as the 'but for' cause of the incident.

 

As previously said, there's a lot of "I wasn't there and I don't know, but..." going on here. I will say, however, that this is (and perhaps sadly so) by far the most intelligent and reasoned discussion regarding this I have seen thus far. Other forums I visit have topics on this that largely consist of one side screaming "That nigger had it coming, all them damn black folks blah blah blah" while the other claims racist intent on the part of everything from the shooter to the law enforcement to the bullet itself.

Also, fuck the media. If Martin had been white (or rather Latino, with media pictures doctored to give him a much more Caucasian appearance) and Zimmerman black, this story wouldn't have gotten any further than a small note in the middle of the local paper.

Maybe I'm going off on a wild tangent of incoherent thought here, I don't really care if I am, but anyway: This is part of a much larger problem that includes so many factors and arguments that there is no end in sight. It could be argued that most white neighborhoods are safer than black ones, or that white people commit more racism than blacks, or that black crime is higher than white crime. It could be argued that gentrification and the much more blatant racist attitudes/actions of the past created a situation where blacks are disenfranchised and left holding the short end of the stick from birth. We could debate all of this until the end of time and get nowhere.

As far as I'm concerned, nothing is going to change until the media stops slanting, people learn to judge by character rather than color, and people stop defining themselves by their race and start defining themselves by their personal traits. I'm white, I'm a US citizen, I'm an Ohioan. None of those should define or dictate who I am as a person (although some here would argue the last one does in fact dictate some very unpleasant characteristics on my part). The same goes for black, brown, green, gay, straight, etc. Be fucking proud of who you are without letting it translate to a "us and them" mentality, which I think is a large part of the racial issues in this country.

Or hey, maybe I'm just holding onto sanity by a thread.

 

And that matters why? Lots of things are "POSSIBLE" but, from my understanding, hypotheticals don't count for much. Though it's a safe bet that if he didn't follow him (which was at least strongly suggested to him), and Martin therefore didn't see him following him, there would have been no confrontation, since it's difficult to confront someone you don't see. Agreed?

One thing that's DEFINITE, is that no one would have been shot if Zimmerman didn't have a gun. Only hearing crickets on that point so far.