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Black People Should Know Not To Wear Hoodies

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Dcc001, Apr 12, 2012.

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  1. Gravy

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    I hear what you are saying. I'm not a lawyer and I'm way out of my depth here. I'm not educated enough about these topics to be posting in this thread in the first place really. But since I opened the can of worms I'll keep with it.

    The law isn't saying there has to be physical evidence. It just says that you have to believe that there will be physical evidence soon. My understanding is that if a dude says something like "I'm going to fuck you up" and takes a step toward you then you have the right to shoot him. You reasonably believed he was about to inflict great bodily harm.

    Maybe that is a very simplistic view of it. But now it seems as if the prosecutors have to basically prove that you were not acting in self-defense. Instead of you proving that you were. There has been a recent increase in justifiable homicides following the passage of Stand Your Ground laws. They of course may not be the cause, but it's interesting nonetheless.

    And the police did bungle the investigation no doubt. One question should be if they did so, because they were giving too much deference to Zimmerman because of the stand your ground law.
     
  2. cinlef

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    Not to pile on with Nom, but you do realize that the reason you didn't say, "it's because I'm white, isn't it?", is because that would be fucking ridiculous, since white people don't get racially stereotyped as criminals, right? I mean, maybe they assumed you were well-off and had access to a decent education, if you wanted it?

    Could someone explain to me how this can be construed as anything but an instance of systemic racism? I don't know, maybe I'm just in some sort of crazy bubble, but I have a hard time understanding why it took such enormous amounts of pressure to bring this case to trial, otherwise.
     
  3. Jimmy James

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    A gated community is exactly what it sounds like. It's a planned neighborhood surrounded by a fence. It's generally filled with nice houses. Trayvon was visiting his dad and his fiance. Zimmerman probably hadn't seen him before and thought he looked suspicious. If the 911 transcript is anything to go by, Zimmerman thought he might have been a possible burglar and called it in.

    The picture that's floating around shows him at 13. There's a newer picture of him with gold teeth, which is probably more indicative of how he actually looked when he was killed.
     
  4. Gravy

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    This picture was taken 9 days before he was killed I believe.

    [​IMG]

    Here is a link to more pictures.

    That pic seems to be from a few years ago is well.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Kampf Trinker

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    It doesn't quite work like that. The key words in cases and laws like this are 'rational' and 'reasonable'. What those words mean is extremely hard to define. That's why we have trials. In this instance, the law uses reasonable. So, if someone were to make a verbal threat and was gunned down for it, the investigator, and a jury should it come to that, is supposed to ask "Is that reasonable?" I'm not saying the powers that be always make the right decision, but the law is designed to give leeway for circumstantial evidence because it would be ridiculous to write every possible way a person's life could be threatened. Keep in mind too, the law defines fighting words and that does not include a right to kill. The stand your ground law states you must be attacked. You must meet force with force. The cops not following up on the investigation and using the law as an excuse is bullshit. A former police chief is on record saying they ignored standard procedures in the event of killing. Personally, I think it's important that the law exists. When I lived in China I saw multiple people beaten to death in broad daylight. You know what they do there? If you get involved and try to help the person you are prosecuted as well because they don't believe you would take part unless you had malicious intentions(not that that has much to with how laws are written there, their legal system is a total farce). Fortunately, murder out in the open like that is rarer in the first world, but I don't have a lot of faith in humanity, and if it ever comes to that you're going to do whatever you can to defend yourself. That law saves people who do need to defend themselves a lot of grief.
     
  6. Jimmy James

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    What about the possibility that George Zimmerman might not be racist? I think a lot of people either don't know or are willfully ignoring the fact that the man is half-Hispanic. According to his family, Zimmerman passed out flyers to black churchgoers to protest an assault on a black homeless man made by a white police lieutenant's son.
     
  7. dewercs

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    The thing that bothers me about this is that it did not have to happen, no one in Zimmerman's gated community was in an immediate grave danger, but he grabbed his gun and went looking for trouble. He may have been justified once the conflict started and have been with in the law but he should not have put himself in that position to begin with.
    I don't think he is a racist murderer, I think he is a fucking idiot.

    I think you would be ignorant to think race had nothing to do with the investigation and then the media blitz that followed once the story got legs. A white male of the same age being killed would have been investigated with a lot more detail than Trayvon's was by law enforcement, but even if it was not the national media would not have covered the death of a white male the same way, if at all.

    If Zimmerman has enough money to hire a decent legal team there is no way he gets convicted of 2nd degree murder.
     
  8. toddamus

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    When I moved to Florida my brothers colleague told me that whenever you hear about something crazy or weird there's a good chance it happened in Florida. Just look at the past year you have Casey Anthony, the quaran(sp?) burning preacher, and now this. Also the two murder stories both occurred in the Orlando area. I think the swamp gases and the heat has some negative consequences.

    Gated communities in Florida are there to give some level of protection and freedom of mind to the people living in that community. Not that the gates are really that protective but its more of a visual deterrence. Being in a community like that, people are wary of those they aren't use to. I can understand how a young black male wearing a hoodie might bring up some questions as to his intentions, not that it's racist, a skinny white guy in a hoodie would also get similar thoughts about him. I alo thnk Florida is different from many other states in the way the communities in the area interact. I think not knowing these places it's easy to make societal conclusions that may be short sighted.

    I don't make any judgements about what happened bc all I know is what the larger media (both Internet and tv) has fed me. Hopefully our justice system works and there can be adaquet resolution to this.
     
  9. Noland

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    That is Florida's Second Degree Murder Statute: part of it, anyway. (Florida Statutes 782.04(2))

    How Florida defines depraved mind is going to be the catch here. This is taken from Florida's pattern jury instructions and the tests for depraved mind are:

    Can you prove beyond a reasonable doubt ill will, hatred, spite, or evil intent? Keep in mind you can't infer this from circumstances. The prosecution has to prove it.

    As a general rule the prosecutor can choose to include lesser included offenses, such as manslaughter, in the charges although sometimes those are included by law in jury instructions. I don't know Florida's rule on this, but if the prosecutor is smart, and there seems to be little doubt she is, she will have included it if necessary.
     
  10. Crown Royal

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    I just had no idea hoodies were such a demonized thing. I have half a dozen of them. Is that why people get scared and walk the other way when I try to ask them for the time?

    The "hoodie" thing in this case is one of the lamest fucking excuses I have ever heard. THAT is what makes a person scar in society today? What is your damage? Take those away, and what are hundreds of thousands of college students going to use to conceal their embarrassing physiques?
     
  11. Juice

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    Black Northface jackets and Ugg boots.

    Im willing to bet Zimmerman went with the black teenager + hoodie combo on this one and immediately assumed he was out buying weed and fohtees and not, you know, a pack of Skittles and a Sprite. He wanted to feel like a bad ass with his gun and now some kid is dead.
     
  12. gogators

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    So being a CCW holder, that actually carries his weapon, and going to the grocery store = gung ho motherfucker with a gun looking for trouble? I guess I need to start leaving my pistol at home instead of actually using it for what it is intended.

    Should I even apply for a permit to have a suppressor for my rifles? I don't want to be labeled a gung ho motherfucker with a suppressed gun looking for trouble.
     
  13. kuhjäger

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    What is sad is that case that could have been a good, hard look at America's gun laws, and right to carry, especially for people who have been arrested, and have restraining orders out on them, in combination with the extent to which laws like stand your ground allow you to shoot someone and not get arrested by claiming "they were coming right for me".

    Instead it has turned into white v black. I heard Zimmerman being referred to as "White Hispanic George Zimmerman", and at times just plain white just to fit this narrative.

    Though I wonder if Martin had shot Zimmerman if the images would have been more like this:
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Do I think Zimmerman murdered the kid? I would say no. I would call voluntary manslaughter.

    I wouldn't be surprised if Martin felt threatened and stepped up to confront Zimmerman, and Zimmerman panicked. But I am just making my own opinions from thousands of miles away, just like everyone else in the case. But not many want to admit that.
     
  14. Juice

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    I'm a CCW holder also, and I carry mine somewhat frequently. But the way the facts in this case look, do you really think he needed to shoot the kid where he had no other option? Ive mentioned before where I was robbed while with my girlfriend and I still didn't pull my gun. Why? because the $100 in my wallet wasn't worth killing someone, getting my girlfriend killed, or going to prison. But believe me, I wanted to blow the guys fucking brains out. The difference is, I didn't.

    If it turns out that Treyvon did in fact attack the guy with a weapon or was beating him severely, then fine; shoot him. But honestly as the facts come out one-by-one its becoming clear that's not the case.
     
  15. ODEN

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    As someone who lives in Orlando, with this occurring up the road, I am sick to the point of physical illness from listening to all of this nonsense on a daily basis. I truly believe that if rioting results from what the media and the political operatives involved have done, they should be brought up on charges.

    We still don't know all of the facts of this case, yet there are still people here presuming the guilt of Zimmerman. I thought we lived in a society where an individual is innocent until proven guilty? We have people looking for race issues where they aren't. We have people using this tragic event to push political agendas, especially gun control. It's a shame, it seems that no tragedy ever goes to waste. No opportunity is lost in attempting to abridge your freedom.
     
  16. kuhjäger

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    Not surprising, I associate hoodies with stoners. It seems like there is something about being high that just causes them to have a hood over their head.
     
  17. audreymonroe

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    This logic is funny. Every race is racist. It's not reserved for white people.

    Don't get me started on the hoodie thing. Not only was it ridiculous to be used as an excuse and completely idiotic when people started suggesting the black teenager not wear hoodies anymore to avoid getting shot, the media and public reaction to it really pissed me off, as if this was the first time anyone suggested something so stupid. Welcome to every case of sexual assault and harassment ever, where the first question out of the mouths of police and the media is "What was she wearing to potentially deserve it?" (I don't want to derail the thread whatsoever; it's just a rant.)

    Anyway, I think the people who don't think race has anything to do with it are being willfully obtuse. As far as I can tell, Zimmerman didn't shoot him because he was thinking "I hate black people and now I get to shoot one, yay!" I think the race problem is that he perceived Treyvon as more of a threat because he was black and maybe didn't even realize what he was doing, so how is he ever going to admit to that, or are we able to prove it?

    The part that I find crazy is that this guy - with a record of violence - was allowed to carry a gun, especially in a watchdog type position. How official was that position, anyway? Is it self-appointed?
     
  18. Frebis

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    DID YOU NOT READ CROWN ROYALS POST????? IT IS OBVIOUS THAT ZIMMERMAN IS GUILTY BECAUSE THE TV TOLD HIM ALL THE FACTS. There need not be a trial when the media is involved. It is a waste of due process.
     
  19. seelivemusic

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    Yep, and his mom's last name is Coon. You can't make this stuff up. Sucks to be lit on fire though.

    Sorry for the off topic post and sounding like Archer. Just watched all 3 seasons and its rubbed off on me.
     
  20. Frank

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    So the hoodie thing. What was the temperature when this went down? This was Florida, right? Who the fuck is wearing a hoodie in Florida?

    Side note: I have a hoodie on right now and wear one every day in cooler weather.
     
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