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BAD DOG!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Dread, May 21, 2011.

  1. Dread

    Dread
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    I left the condo this morning to go to the office and as I walked from the elevators to the lobby, I saw what I assumed was a small puddle of urine soaking into the carpet. Had to have been a dog, right? Anyway... It got me thinking about how my boy, Bowser, is almost perfectly housebroken. I only say ALMOST because there's always a chance that he'll have an accident. He's just a dog.

    Bowser is 3 now and my wife and I have had him since he was a 10-week-old puppy. We primarily used puppy pads. He got the hang of them quickly and hasn't had to use one in close to 2 years. I have 2 friends, though, who own a fat dachshund and that fucking dog pisses everywhere for any given reason. They've tried puppy pads and the dog just ignores them. When they try to take him outside, he'll just pee on the floor, move 3 feet away from the wet spot and roll onto his back. They've had that dog for 4 or 5 years and have made jack shit progress with him as far as housebreaking goes.

    Focus: How did you housebreak your dog? Tell your story.

    Alt. Focus: What tips would you give to a puppy owner? Are you a "rub their nose in it" kind of person? Do you just roll with it, clean it up and assume that accidents will always happen?
     
  2. DrFrylock

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    I just got a smart dog and within a week it was going exclusively on the pee-pads. It kind of figured it out on its own.

    Walking on the leash, however, took quite a bit of practice.

    FRYLOCK EDIT: Because toddamus is a useless smartass, I don't mean just being able to be on the leash and generally go in the same direction you are. I am talking about the dog walking with a slack leash six inches from your right foot, checking in periodically and matching pace instead of pulling every which-way trying to investigate something or chase after something.
     
  3. Clutch

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    Not a dog story, but my parents used to have an indoor cat with a litter box in the bathroom. I'm just going to say that drunkenly pissing in a litterbox is not as funny as you might think.
     
  4. archer

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    I used positive reinforcement on my Australian Cattle Dog puppy, if he went inside he didn't get chastised verbally or physically but was put outside right away (if i could i'd interrupt his piss by picking him up and quickly getting him outside to finish off). When he went in the right place (outside on the grass) id try and get in the command ("Toilet") and when he was done he got a lot of praise and some treats followed by being instantly allowed back in the house.

    Took about a week for him to pick up on the fact that the toilet is outside and good things happen when he goes there. Now he also pisses on command, so before i go inside i tell him to go to the toilet and he relieves himself and we go inside.

    Accidents will happen, he is still a puppy so sometimes he just doesn't know he needs to go until he is going. You just need to be vigilant and look for the warning signs (sniffing generally) and regularly take them outside (after playing for a while, after a nap, after eating, after drinking etc).

    Constantly reinforce the correct behavior and you wont have a problem, even so called stupid dogs will pick this up... There are no stupid dogs, only stupid owners.

    If they do go inside make sure you clean it very thoroughly as the smell of piss in the house will likely encourage more pissing in the same place (you may not be able to smell it but they certainly can), i find disinfectant followed by a little sprinkling of Vanilla Essence on the spot gets rid of the smell very well (also makes the area smell like food, and animals in general don't shit or piss where they eat).

    EDIT: If you are going to go down the punishment road for training for heavens sake don't punish them after the fact, unless the punishment comes during or immediately after the bad behavior your puppy will not make the association. It will just think you are being an asshole for no reason and then you become an untrustworthy and erratic pack leader.
     
  5. Durej

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    Interesting enough my roommate just got a new dog last week. She's a 12 week old boxer/lab mix I think. So we are actually in the process of housebreaking her now. Used the following steps for this dog and past dogs.

    Focus: I rub the dogs nose in it, beat them and throw them outside. When they finally start going to the door to go out I let them out, once they are done I tell them good dog and sometimes give them a treat after. Simple and effective.

    She has accidents here and there but I'm talking like every other day. She was shitting and pissing in the house every hour the first day we got her.
     
  6. vex

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    We got my dog when she was 8 weeks old. I tried to leash her at the shelter but she was having none of it so I had to pick her up and take her to the car. She just lay there for the whole car ride home while I was giddy with excitement. Once I opened the garage door and let her in the house, she went up two separate flights of stairs and straight to my room and took a shit right in the middle of my favorite carpet.

    Focus: I potty trained her by spending plenty of time with her. I was playing with her outside all the time and made sure to take her to pee before bed, right when I got up, constantly throughout the day etc.. If she had an accident in the house, my dad would use the old fashioned "rub her nose in it" but I can only remember that happening once or twice. She didn't like it at all. And then she didn't like him at all. My mom might have smacked her once or twice as well. She was a fast learner though.

    Anti-alt focus: What is with people who want their dog walking side by side with them like some sort of mini slave? I take my dog out so she can explore the wilderness and catch up on where other dogs have urinated.
     
  7. archer

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    It's just a control thing, if you let your dog lead the walk all the time then she is being the dominant one and this lessons your ability to enforce other commands as her pack leader. In the wild the alpha dog will always lead, and while domesticated dogs are far from their wild forefathers the same pack rules still apply.

    My dog heels for most of the walk but i will give him the release command and let him sniff/explore when its appropriate and i want him to, I then bring him back to heel. It simply continues to reinforce your role as his leader.
     
  8. StayFrosty

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    This. A lot of people argue that commanding your dog whilst letting him/her jump up on you, walk ahead, and so on, confuses him because at times you're acting like a pack leader, but at others you're not. Some say to go as far as never feeding your dog except right after you've eaten, and controlling how much you feel negative emotions around them. The idea is that by always appearing in complete control, you become a strong pack leader by a dog's standards, and therefore he can feel more relaxed and safe knowing that the "pack" is safe.

    I can't say I agree with every last bit of it, but there is a reasonable logic there.
     
  9. archer

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    I don't go that far with the food thing, if you simply never feed the dog from the table or your plate it should never associate what you are doing with eating, add to that a structured and regular feeding schedule and begging for food shouldn't be an issue for most dogs. Obviously there are some exceptions, like Beagles whose nose just leads them into trouble, but for the most part this has always worked for me.

    The biggest barrier to this being successful is friends and family who think its cute to hand feed your dog scraps from the table, it only takes a couple of repetitions for the begging to start and its an extremely difficult habit to break. Your friends/family can undo all your hard work training in just a few minutes if you don't tell them what to do and more importantly what not to do around your dog.

    A few years ago, with my old dog, I actually had a screaming match with a friends girlfriend that ended with me telling her to get the fuck out of my house if she wasn't willing to do what i asked (she was feeding him scraps under the table, despite me explicitly telling her not to several fucking times). Her argument? he looked hungry and i was being cruel by not feeding him... My mate apologized and took her home, they broke up shortly afterward (not because of this alone, he just finally realized what a stupid cunt she was).
     
  10. whatisinaname

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    Listen to what Archer says if you want an awesome dog. I live in a part of a big city where no one cares that my dog is off the leash. However; he has two commands when it is walk time, one German word means in English roughly "venture out, but watch me" and the other is full on "run free", but he never leaves my voice command or sight.

    All other times, on or off leash, he is in full heel and nailed to my side. A smart dog is always looking to you to lead and it is happy to take that control if you do not. Remember, the trained K-9 wants a loving and fair master to love back, not a bitch that he or she can take control.

    Once the leader of the pack is established, that being you, you'll have someone that loves you more than you even love yourself. 'Run free' has its place, but not around kids, city sidewalks, large groups, and at night - when in a city you always want him on the 'watch command'.

    Or, on a lake in Western Canada because of the bears playing on your outdoor Olga Korbut gymnastic equipment so your 'guests' feel comfortable...

    ...a trampoline and a white van...I need a shower now. Thanks, Nett.
     
  11. vex

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    Sorry, but that crap sounds like something I might hear from a PUA. While your "techniques" might work, I feel like they completely fail on a social level with the animal. I don't want to write a book about it, but the short and skinny is that I can't imagine having a mans-best-friend experience with an animal that you are so bent on "dominating." What does it even say about the obedience when you need proximity to enforce it?
     
  12. hooker

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    Ooooh, already this looks like it's going to be an ugly discussion.

    I take the "be firm and assertive" side with dog training (and husband training).

    Pepper is half Boxer, half American Bulldog - and she certainly got her stubbornness from the American Bulldog side. If you have a well socialized Lab, or a Retriever, then yes, fine, walks don't need to have rules and boundaries. Unfortunately, different dogs have different temperaments, and if I don't establish with Pepper who is walking who, she turns into a snarly bitch with other dogs while she is on her leash. Walks (in our case, runs) are perfect training and bonding opportunities, and I take full advantage of that time.

    She was a little bit of a devil when we first got her (read here: <a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.theidiotboard.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=119&p=3502&#p3502" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">viewtopic.php?f=3&t=119&p=3502&#p3502</a>), but we have learned how to manage her properly now and life is good.
     
  13. lust4life

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    Crate training. Worked when my kids were toddlers, and damn if it didn't work with the puppy, too.
     
  14. Durej

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    Wow already the red dots come pouring in. Guess I am the only person next to my roommates who actually still rub a dogs nose in their own mess, spank them and and take them to the grass so they know where to do their business. I've seen the counter to this method with the consent "no no no you go outside next time" and it never ceases to amaze me how much these people let their own dogs run the house. My friends mom's dog is a perfect example of this, he climbs on the couch when your eating and pretty much takes the food out of your mouth. Hell if your not looking it will jump up and take it off your plate. It shits and pisses where it pleases because all the dog get is "ugh someone had an accident" or "ohhhh no no this is my food you get down" talk. This dog is a 7 year old yellow lab and it pretty much runs that house.

    I'm not saying go Micheal Vick on a dog because that's cruel and inhumane. But spanking a dog and telling them no when they are wrong is not abuse.
     
  15. Frank

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    I think where you went wrong is using the word 'beat' in your first post instead of 'spank' like in your second post. Slight difference.
     
  16. Durej

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    Yea we always say beat the dogs ass at my house, never spank even though that's what it means haha. So i didn't really think about it when I posted on here. Unfortunately Ive seen what i consider bad dog training which included hitting and kicking. Luckily that dog belongs to my roommate now and that dog never leaves his side.
     
  17. Whothehell

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    When my dog was first brought home, we laid down newspaper and every time she started to go grabbed her and put her on it (is this the same concept of a puppy pad? I've never heard that term).

    Then after a few days, we moved the newspaper beside the door.

    Then we moved it just outside the door. The very first time she had to go and her newspaper was outside, she begged to be let out.

    All in all it took about 3-4 days.
     
  18. $100T2

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    We did it the Cesar Millan Way:

    We took Tonka outside every half hour. We took him outside right after he ate or drank. If he went outside, we immediately said, "Good boy, go potty!" He now associates "go potty" with "I need to go out and piss or shit", so if we say, "Do you need to go potty?" he immediately bolts to the door.

    If he started to piss or shit in the house, we stopped him and immediately rushed him outside. If he did it and we didn't catch him, we took him outside and cleaned it up when he was out. One of the things I've read is you don't want the dog to see you clean it up, because then he'll think, "Hey, I'll just shit here, they'll take care of it."

    We had him fully trained in a couple weeks.

    Advice to puppy owners: Wear them out. 10 minutes of play time will get you two hours of peace, unless you have a dog with Mastiff in it, which means 10 minutes of play time will get you half a day of peace. Nice that they get tired easy.
     
  19. JoeCanada

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    My buddy's dad has two dogs, and when they do something wrong (shit inside, chew/ruin expensive things) he hits them pretty hard; not anything that would do permanent (or even short term) damage, but he's quite aggressive.

    I don't know anything about dog training, but I can say that those two dogs are the friendliest, most even tempered dogs I've ever met. They're not skittish or afraid of him at all, and they're now very well trained.
     
  20. archer

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    That's just it, on a social level i'm demonstrating to my dog who is the leader on a daily basis. He is a pack animal, so he should be treated like a pack animal, it will make him more comfortable and secure knowing the pack is well led and safe. You appear to be treating your dog as an equal and while that may be fine for a smaller breed dog, for larger breeds it is extremely important for them to know they are the bottom rung on the household ladder, otherwise they will dominate you and others in the house and that can lead to aggression. There are always exceptions and if your method works for you that's fine, more power to you. Ill train my dog my way, you train yours your way.

    He is my best friend and i don't feel i'm hell bent on dominating him every second of the day, he gets plenty of affection and play with me when its appropriate. When its not time for that he knows it and obeys my commands.

    Proximity has nothing to do with it, its you leading the walk that is the important thing. He could be a dozen paces behind you and you get the same effect; you lead and he follows. It's just easier to have them at heel. As an example of how proximity has nothing to do with enforcing the obedience i can make my puppy sit and stay while i go inside the shops. He will not move until i give him the release command, he ignores anything and everything until he can see me again (then the tail starts going nuts) and when i release him he couldn't be happier.

    Can you do the same? (honest question, not trying to be antagonistic)