Most of what you mentioned I already knew because a friend of mine from work is a Mason and so is his father. He had done some stuff to become a Master Mason not too long ago and I inquired what it was exactly they do. He answered a lot of my questions similar to how you did. Before that I knew absolutely nothing about what they did so I checked out a Freemasons for Dummies book. After further study, some of the men I immensely respect had been Masons as well such as Voltaire, Theodore Roosevelt, Bach and Mozart. After reading all the stuff you posted, it just made me want to petition even more.
1) Preconceptions. I thought it was a lot "cooler," in the sense that there was more networking, power-influences, secrets about stuff other than symbolic artifacts, etc. You said it's a society with secrets, and less a secret society; I thought it was more the other way around. In some ways I'm encouraged to try to join, because I now know the entry standards revolve around the quality of your character, and I like that for a number of reasons including because I would only want to be associated with like-minded individuals. Ditto goes to just a belief in some form of higher power. 2) Attitude change. I honestly get kind of turned off by the symbolism of stuff and "deeper meaning" and crap. To me it all just sounds like a grown-up theater play time. Although I didn't know how deeply masonry was involved with charity, and I really, REALLY respect that. Because of this thread, I also looked up where my local lodge is, and honestly, I have never been so turned off by an organization's website. I was still really considering it at the time, but every single damn page was practically begging for you to apply to join, complete with who you should contact and all that stuff. I live in a fairly major city, but I guess they're really struggling for membership and to me, that means they're desperate for money. It's like a chick that doesn't shave her legs; big turn-off.
Do you frequently see such negative reactions from strangers or acquaintances once they realize that you're a mason? Granted I don't know any masons that I know of, but I've never perceived any sort of animosity towards Freemasonry from anyone I know.
I have no clue why, but my beliefs about masonry both previous to this thread (when I had no clue about it) and prior to it (I now believe I have a good understanding of it), have led me to view freemasonry as strong pacifist group. Again, no real clue why, but that's an honest belief I'm remotely guessing is based upon peripheral characteristics of stereotypes portrayed in this thread. They asked for honest answers of what we thought about them in this thread (in the "Ask A _____" series, this seems to be a first, and it is a first I really agree with), and I'm inclined to respond.
Do not ignore the fact people like Samuel Colt and George Washington were also Masons. There is a huge difference in between being a Pacifist and letting injustice reign.
I've never seen a Lodge website that was well done. And it's rare to see a polished Masonic website in general. It's all pretty new to there guys. I obviously don't know your area, but it's more about warm bodies than dollars. Freemasonry isn't expensive to run, and no one has a paid position except perhaps the Grand Lodge secretary. Certainly no one at Lodge level gets a dime except in reimbursement of expenses. I lot of Lodges just have an increasing average age and it's a little scary for them. No Mason wants to have to close a Lodge.
I knew one guy who would have been outright hostile (as relayed in an earlier post) had he ever found out. Mostly I get some slightly shocked surprise and a "I never would have guessed", immediately followed by "don't they fuck goats/worship satan/go to meetings naked except for a little apron/run the world/get special privileges?". Sometimes I get a "my dad/cousin/uncle/granddad is a Mason" and it's cool (my mother's father was a Mason too, but I never met him as he died before I was born. I have his Masonic bible. I use it to take affidavits and oaths). The balance are people for whom it means absolutely nothing and they have no idea what I'm on about. Sometimes we've gotten comments from passersby as we're entering Lodge trying to get a reaction out of us, but the sentiment would have been the same if they were comments directed at a woman with big tits and a low cut top on.
I can understand how you would form that opinion, and it's partly right. We don't respond to attacks and criticisms, except to refer to our well documented stance on things. We don't have the time or effort to give the cranks the time of day, and what difference would it make? These people are almost universally without any first hand knowledge of what they're professing to jabber on about, and those that are usually have an agenda to bias them. More realistically though, our philosophy is more along the lines of defend only against the things that actually threaten (although unspoken; it's my take). Every Lodge meeting since Freemasonry was formalised, at least, has always had a Mason stand guard outside with a drawn sword. Even today, although it is more figurative than operative. The sword is real though. His job is to keep out unworthy people and intruders, and to warn those inside of approaching trouble. Directly inside the Lodge is a second guard, armed with a knife. Our mindset is defence. Offensively, we try and positively influence society. If more drastic measures were needed, I doubt our members would sit it out. Although we are forbidden to break laws or rebel against the government, we are required to uphold the laws of the country.
So if Washington was a Freemason, how was he able to participate in the Revolutionary War? Wouldn't that be considered "rebelling against the government?" Also, you've said that to become a Mason, you should ask a Mason that you know. I'm interested in becoming a Mason, but I don't know one(that I know of) and the Mason lodge in my area doesn't have an application on their website. Should I just walk into one of their meetings? I thought that would be kind of rub them the wrong way. Thanks again for doing this, it has been very informative.
There could be a number of reasons for this, I'm just speculating. The first is that rule may not exist in the rite he was a part of. It may not have existed as a rule under his Grand Lodge's constitution. It's even possible that he got in trouble for participating and the rule was added after because he did so. Taking another tack, it could also be looked at in the spirit of rule. The revolutionaries probably looked at the themselves and the people of America as the valid government and country, and the English as an occupying force. We don't get taught American history in any depth, so someone else here could probably articulate and explain that better. But if that is the case, it could logically be followed that Washington wasn't breaking any Masonic rules if the prevailing sentiment was that the English were not the valid government. Also, he may have sought advice from his fellow Masons before committing to anything. Really, I'm clutching at straws. I can't give you a definitive answer. I've covered this above, but it's useful to recap it. If you personally don't know a Mason and are interested, here's what to do: 1. Check for a Lodge website in your area. If they don't have an application (as you stated), they may have an address or phone number. 2. Check the Grand Lodge website for your district. They should definitely have a section on joining. 3. Find your local Lodge. They shouldn't be too difficult to find. (Generally) Look for an old-fashioned building of one or two storeys big enough to be used as a hall. Most Lodges will have a sign saying they're a Lodge and will often give you the name of the Lodge meeting there. At the very least there should be a sign or symbol on the building in the shape of a square and compasses forming a diamond (compasses on top, opened, square on the bottom). It may or may not have a "G" in the middle. When you've found that look for a groundskeeper or a posted name and number about enquiries. If nothing else, there should be a mail slot or box where you can leave a note for someone to contact you. If you're having trouble finding the actual Lodge, it's possible there's not one in your immediate area. Most population centres should have at least one. Ask the oldest person you can find. Odds are they'll know enough to get you on the right track.
My understanding about how a Mason could be involved in the Revolutionary War is as follows: It is true that Mason's should be peaceful subjects to civil power and not be involved in plots and conspiracies against the nations welfare, etc. Then, how could a Mason be a part of this. I was told and have read that the official policy back then was neutrality, mainly because half were loyalists and half were separatists. The role of Freemasonry in the founding of America is greatly over-exagerrated. Yeah, 8-10 guys signing the Declaration were Masons. Washington, Franklin, Hancock, etc. high level historic people. Also, there is a big belief that the Boston Tea Party was an act performed by Masons. Maybe. This is because the "Indians" were spotted coming from and returning to a Masonic lodge from this event. Well, it is believed that Masons were able to be a part of the war because technically a rebellion against the state isn't truly a Masonic offense. The guys most likely felt that their rebellion against the crown was warranted and justified and could follow their consciences clearly without fear of Masonic offenses. Also, regardless of belief or what people have heard, the worst Masonic offense that would ever happen would only result in expulsion. Simple as that. I personally believe that the ideals that America was founded in are heavily based upon Masonic ideals and principles. Freedom and democracy, equality. In a world where people fight all the time for their god, Masons can be harmonious and accepting of all faiths. America was founded with the idea of justice for all. So, in some ways, Masons being involved in fighting for something that very much aligns with Masonic ideals most likely allowed them to feel even more comfortable. The Civil War is a whole different story. Masonic rules were actually rewritten during that time to allow for Masons to fight other Masons.
Thanks mad. I heard something about the Boston Tea Party/Masonic connection. Masonic Lodges used to be held in pubs and taverns a lot of the time as they were good meeting points, there was no suspicion entering and leaving one (except by the wife) and they generally had the space that was needed. This was important when Masonry was kept secret for fear of punishment by the authorities. That, and beer makes everything better. So, what I heard was that the protaganists were spotted coming from a tavern that was known to be used as a Masonic Lodge. Not saying it wasn't Masons of course.
First off, this has been a fascinating thread, and I'm sure I speak for the TiB population when I say thanks to Disgustipated for being kind enough to be our guinea pig. More Ask a (X) threads will be coming in the future, and as always if you want to volunteer to be the subject of an Ask a X thread, please PM me. Not many. I certainly did not have any conspiracy theories in mind, nor did I think there was anything too nefarious going on. I was a little miffed that Masonry totally cockblocked me, but I guess that's not really its fault. I do know one Mason these days, and he is a decent and amiable guy. He also loves belonging to organizations, and loves pomp, circumstance, and traditions of all sorts, so it does not surprise me that he would enjoy it as much as he does. I still don't really "get it" but perhaps that's because it's not for me. The whole thing struck me as a sort of "fraternity for grown-ups" with more ritual and symbolism, and I guess that's kind of right, but also kind of not right. When I think about secret societies, the thing I'm thinking about mostly is collusion: that the people are getting together to advantage themselves somehow over outsiders, hiding this somewhat behind the "veil of secrecy." This is certainly a fraternity stereotype, but I haven't heard anything about it in this thread. Maybe it doesn't actually happen. I wonder, then, what the point of the secrecy is. One thing I learned about, but will admit to "not getting," is the very strong emphasis on the whole "good person/moral character" thing. I mean it's great to want to be a good person and all, but secret background checks and learning goodness through allegory just makes me go "WTF?" I was raised Catholic, so I do understand the concept of "goodness through allegory," though the Catholics use the ones from the Bible and stuff. I just personally don't operate that way; the way I try to stay a good person is to be constantly reflecting on the impacts of my actions and try to decide if I could do something different in the future to get a better outcome. If the allegories are meant to improve people's moral character, I also don't see why the organization keeps them secret - wouldn't it be a better moral good to teach them openly? I wonder also about the criteria for assessing someone's character. I spend more time than most people trying to understand people and their motivations, including my own. I find that it helps me interact with people better. What I have found over many years is that people live in conflict: they want to do the right thing, they want to be happy, and most of them are insecure about at least a few things. When a person makes a decision and these three things are not in conflict, the decision is easy. When they are in conflict, the decision is hard. Some people are sociopaths, and they don't have the biological need to do the right thing very often. Some people are more insecure than others, which pulls them in the direction of making decisions that shore up insecurities. Some people are depressed and so they have a greater need to be happy. These things pull people out of balance. This model of people doesn't really comport with the "good character/not good character" dichotomy, and so I don't know how I'd feel about belonging to an organization that tried to apply one. I'm of mixed feelings about this. Getting to know and trust someone is a long process, and everybody does it differently. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, but I'm also skeptical until I can determine someone's motives. I'm extremely wary about any organization that wants to try to replace (even partially) my own judgment about a person with theirs. However, I can see a few circumstances where this might be handy. If some random came knocking on my door and asked me to help them change a tire or use my phone, I'm going to be extremely wary. But if we have some small connection - maybe we work at the same place, or we live in the same building, or something that provides an indication that this person is for real and not trying to scam me, I'm more apt to help out. So maybe using the secret handshake as a proxy is mostly harmless for gaining a little extra "benefit of the doubt" in initial interactions with a stranger. Anything much beyond that, though, and I wonder about any organization that wants me to trust its judgment more than my own. I would love a "secret handshake" that could honestly tell me something about a person's motivations rather than their "character." For example, I would love if someone could give me the secret handshake that said "Hi, my name is Bob. I'm 34 years old and not very motivated, so I slacked off through school and got a job as an outside sales representative for a company selling a product I don't care about. My parents didn't show much affection for me, so I am constantly looking for new mentors and overt approval of people around me. To deal with this, I drink, and I also buy things that I think will make me happy. As such, I'm a little irresponsible with cash. You probably shouldn't loan me any. I will not, however, steal any out of your wallet if you leave me alone in a room with it, so you're OK there."
I believe this happens all the time in the ladies bathroom. One way of looking at it is that it is elitism in the pure sense. It's not designed to denigrate anybody, but rather to ensure that the institution itself is not degraded or cheapened by people who aren't there for the right reasons. Man, I wish I knew the people you know. In my experience people want to be happy alright, but wanting to do the right thing comes in secondary. I find most people fall into one of two groups: those that don't care until something personally affects them, and those that will do the right thing as long as it doesn't inconvenience them. But I'm getting to be an old cynic, so I'd be happy to be wrong. But that is so much a part of having these strict standards. I know what I had to go through to become a Mason. Knowing that, I can trust that, at face value, another Mason has gone through what I have gone through and been proved. It doesn't mean I'm going to turn a blind eye if I see anything untoward, but it does mean I've got a good idea of the force of his convictions. Otherwise, he'd be out.
This has been a great thread, so thanks for offering your help. As far as my preconception of Freemasons goes, well, prior to about 6 months ago, 100% of my thoughts on Freemasons were based on the Simpsons episode of Stone Cutters. I had watched a brief documentary on the History Channel or TLC and it had linked it to the Simpsons. So, I figured it had a major effect on the history of the US, it had evolved to something close to the Stone Cutters. But, 6 months ago, I met my father in law, and he talked briefly about it. No details, but he'd say he was going to do this or that with his mason brothers. I also visited his lodge during an open house and I was intrigued a bit. It sounded quite interesting. But, then this thread comes along and clears most things up. I had tried to do searches online, but trying to figure out what was a myth, what's a complete lie and what is the truth is basically impossible. I guess now I think that Freemasons is basically a fraternity of men who want to become better and want to make the world a better place. And, it has convinced me to start the application process. And, on that topic, how long is the process usually? My life is a tad hectic at the moment, which has limited my volunteering activities. If it's done within a month, I'd hold back a bit. But, if it's a 6 month process, I'd start it now.
Unfortunately, the answer is "how long's a piece of string?". There's a number of factors that can affect it such as how efficient the Lodge Secretary is, how efficient the Grand Lodge Secretary is, how busy the Lodge you're applying to is, whether they meet in December (ones in my area don't because of Christmas and people being away) and how well you're already known to Lodge members. Realistically, I wouldn't bank on it being less than three months minimum from application to initiation. If it's more than six, I doubt you've been successful.
I'd like to thank Disgustipated for doing this thread. I'm also a Mason, but I was only raised four years ago so I don't have as much experience in the lodge dealings as Disgustipated does. As most of you know by now I own a bar/restaurant and unfortunately this takes up most of my time so I haven't been able to participate in the lodge as much as I would like. This is ok for now because, as Disgustipated has already made reference to, family comes first, hence if I were to neglect my business I'd be neglecting my family. After I was raised I also became part of the group known as the Shriners. You have probably seen us outside your local supermarket a couple times each year. We're the ones with the funny hats. The Shrine is known(for lack of a better term) as the "partying" segment of Masons. As a bar owner this seemed natural. We get together for fun and drinking(a lot of drinking). Now, I thought I was a drinker...most of these guys have got me beat hands down, mostly because most of them have 30-40 years of drinking experience over me. Now the Shrine isn't all fun and games(a lot, but not all). We do a lot of charity work for our children's hospitals and burn centers. That's what we are collecting for when we're outside your local supermarket. Here is the about us section taken from the Shriners Hospital for Children website... Spoiler About Us Shriners Hospitals for Children® is a health care system of 22 hospitals dedicated to improving the lives of children by providing pediatric specialty care, innovative research, and outstanding teaching programs for medical professionals. Children up to age 18 with orthopaedic conditions, burns, spinal cord injuries, and cleft lip and palate are eligible for care and receive all services in a family-centered environment, regardless of the patients’ ability to pay. It's how Shriners Hospitals for Children® has been Changing the World through Caring for Kids since 1922. Eligibility Children up to age 18 are eligible for care at Shriners Hospitals for Children®, if, in the opinion of our physicians, there is a reasonable possibility they can benefit from the specialized services available. Admission is based solely on a child's medical needs. Orthopaedic Care Shriners Hospitals for Children® has been a leader in pediatric orthopaedic care since 1922. In fact, we have the largest full-time staff of pediatric orthopaedic surgeons in the U.S. Shriners Hospitals for Children® is dedicated to providing medical and rehabilitative services to children with congenital anomalies and conditions, problems resulting from orthopaedic injuries and diseases of the neuromusculoskeletal system. Burns The Shriners Hospitals for Children® specializing in burns have been leaders in pediatric burn care since opening in the 1960s. Patients receive treatment for burn injuries and related scarring, along with physical rehabilitation and emotional support. In addition, our pioneering efforts in burn research have led to tremendous advancements and innovations in this field. Spinal Cord Injury Rehabilitation In the early 1980s, Shriners Hospitals for Children® opened the nation’s first spinal cord injury rehabilitation centers specifically designed for kids. Here, patients find a complete range of services needed in order to recover to the fullest extent possible. Our researchers are engaged in studies that have advanced – and will continue to advance – treatment and rehabilitation for people with spinal cord injuries. Cleft Lip and Palate Cleft lip and palate was added to the health care system’s treatment disciplines in 2005. Available multidisciplinary services include surgery, orthodontics, and hearing, speech and psychological therapies. Shriners Hospitals for Children® is committed to improving care for children with this condition through a comprehensive, coordinated program of clinical excellence. Research Shriners Hospitals for Children® is dedicated to conducting innovative research to provide answers to complex medical difficulties affecting children. Shriners Hospitals for Children®'s contributions to the medical community not only benefit our patients, but contribute to the overall body of medical knowledge for the care and treatment for a wide range of pediatric and adult conditions worldwide. Education Shriners Hospitals for Children® is proud of its role in medical education. In the past 20 years, more than 8,000 physicians have received residency education or postgraduate fellowship within the health care system. By maintaining relationships with more than 60 medical teaching facilities worldwide, Shriners Hospitals for Children® fosters an academic environment committed to providing high-quality medical care to all patients. Having a daughter who was born with birth defects in her eyes the Shrine really rang home to me. I get great pleasure in knowing that I'm helping children have better lives. Because with all the drinking and hilarity that we have, it really just boils down to helping the hospitals and the kids. As Disgustipated has said multiple times in this thread you can be surprised sometimes as to who is a Mason. When I joined the Shrine I was greeted at the after party/happy hour by one of my Jr. High/High school friend's father who has been a Mason and a Shriner for well over thirty years. While this doesn't seem too surprising, consider that I grew up in NJ and played baseball with his son on multiple levels and we were and are still close friends, and I never has the first inkling that he was a Mason, let alone a Shriner. I became a Mason and a Shriner here in FL so imagine my surprise when I walked into the happy hour and there he was to greet me. I don't want to hijack Disgustipated's thread, but if anyone has questions about the Shrine I'd be happy to answer them to the best of my ability. Oh, and I almost forgot, look for us at your local parades. We're the ones dressed up like clowns and driving around in the funny little cars throwing out candy to kids. (And no, we don't have white windowless vans you jackals.)
Thanks for contributing, and happy for you to field questions. Shrine exists in Australia, but I've never seen it anywhere and I know about as much about it as anyone else. On the subject of drinking, I thought I'd seen guys who could throw it down until I went to a Robbie Burns night at a Scottish Lodge. Holy Shit.