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American Chopper: Senior Vs. Junior

Discussion in 'TV Shows' started by E. Tuffmen, Jan 1, 2011.

  1. E. Tuffmen

    E. Tuffmen
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    Have any of you been watching this show? I for one am fascinated by Senior's complete lack of self-awareness. I have never seen anyone so clueless about his own culpability. He's in a fantasy world. It's hysterical to watch him bad mouth his son about something and then have them show Jr, behaving in a way that's opposite of what his father believes, or he contradicts himself from one show to the other. It's almost as if senior is not aware that what he's saying is being recorded and documented. I always thought if not for Jr. OCC would never have gotten as big as it has. I can't wait to see Paul Junior succeed and his father eat shit.

    Does anyone think differently? Is Paul Jr. just an asshole in disguise? I'm pretty impressed with how he has handled himself throughout the whole thing so far.
     
  2. Nettdata

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    I have watched a few episodes, and yeah, Senior is being a fucking idiot.

    I watched him try and hire help away from Junior, and actively try and sabotage projects junior has going.

    I can only imagine that editing plays a HUGE part in how it's all portrayed.

    I also have no doubt that Junior is his father's son, and can be a petulant shithead, but yeah, in the radio interviews I've heard, and from what I've seen on the show, Senior is losing his mind.

    A large part of it has to be Senior's refusal to accept the concept that Junior was at all responsible for OCC's success... his ego demands that it was all his hard work that did it all.

    And then there was the whole stock thing, where Senior said Junior's stock in OCC was worthless, so he should sell them back to Senior for $1

    And Senior has been calling all the industry contacts he has and has been basically trying to blackmail them into not selling or helping Junior.


    I think the sanest one on the show is Vinnie, and to see him working with Junior, at a startup that wasn't making any money yet, speaks volumes.


    I only watched a bit of the first 3-4 episodes before Senior's attitude totally turned me off of the show. Could care less about anything OCC anymore, and hope he just craters.
     
  3. zyron

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    The one thing I can't understand, is Senior is trying to buy Junior 20% stake in the company for nothing, absolutely nothing. And he acts like the injured party. Juniors being unreasonable.

    Also, Senior talks about Junior not doing any work on bikes and then saying he did everything. The only person I ever saw do that was Senior. He always comes out to tighten a bolt or hold something for a second so it looks like he worked on the bike.
     
  4. john_b

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    Vinnie did open his own shop with Cody (another ex-OCC kid) called VForce Customs. Not sure if he's just working both things or if he closed his own shop up but he might have a few irons in the fire.
     
  5. joule_thief

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    I couldn't agree more. Thank God for DVRs. I just fast forward through the parts where Senior is talking. It amazes me how he thinks he is the victim.
     
  6. mad5427

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    In the recent episode where Junior's company built the four wheeler, I really hated how Senior acted. Yeah, that project may not have been the most high profile, but Junior entrusted a lot of responsibility on that younger employee. That kid made some mistakes and they missed a deadline. know it was editing, but I highly doubt Senior was truthful in saying they never missed a deadline. And it was missed by a day. I the real world, shit happens. You can't be perfect at all times. I also think that Junior handled it pretty well. That kid learned a lot and will be so infinitely better for it. As much of an ass as Junior probably can be, if I had a choice, I'd be giving it my all to help him build something from the ground up rather than hugging Senior's nuts at the company that would be shit without Junior.

    I really hope Junior succeeds and Senior fails. Actually, I want Vinnie to succeed and screw everybody else. He's awesome, level headed and comes across as a hard working family man.

    Also, Mikey is a waste and would be living in a ditch somewhere if not dead if it wasn't for the success of his brother and father. He can be funny, but seriously. Get a job or at least be serious about something in life.
     
  7. Nettdata

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    I enjoy Mikey's sense of humour.

    When he's just going off the cuff, and having fun, he's really funny.

    Unfortunately, I think he's kind of a one-trick pony (at least on those shows), so he tries too hard, and it falls flat.

    He is/was also an alcoholic who went to rehab last year, and it appears he was pushed out of OCC by Senior, and didn't hold out like Junior.

    Mind you, he's the first handful of links when you Google Mikey.
     
  8. Puffman

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    While Paul Jr did most of the design work and fabrication work in the first few seasons, Paul Sr. was doing most of the business work. There is an awful lot to running a business besides just building the product and I never saw any indication that Paul Jr was doing any of that. Jr. was always just an employee and receiving a fair wage for the work he did until he demanded 20 percent ownership of the business and did not pay for that percentage. He then leaves six months later and now wants fair market value for the shares. I agree with what everyone thinks about Paul Sr. but he is not without some merit here.

    On a personal level, I much prefer the designs OCC is putting out than Paul Jrs. I think they are a cleaner more integrated design for the most part. Jr.'s designs I have always thought as cluttered and overdone.

    But Vinnie is the best. Vforce has some really nice designs and I am much more the Cafe Racer, Crotch Rocket kind of guy.
     
  9. Nettdata

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    Don't forget that without TLC/Discovery and the show, they would not be seeing the growth they are now. The TV show really developed the brand globally, which is responsible for OCC's biggest moneymaker; merchandise. And Junior was a HUGE part of that.

    So yeah, Senior might be overseeing the office manager, and handling the day to day logistics, but Junior did contribute a fair bit by helping to build the brand. Hell, so did Vinnie and Mikey.


    The way I look at it, it's business. If he's got the shares, then he can do whatever the fuck he wants with them within the bounds of any contractual obligations he may have entered into.

    The selling of those shares is a completely separate transaction, and all this bullshit of the company not being worth anything is exactly that, bullshit. Junior asked for an independent valuation of the company to determine a realistic value for the shares, and Senior wouldn't allow it. Because even he knows he's full of shit.


    But fuck Senior. He should have thought about the shares when he handed them out.
     
  10. Puffman

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    Absolutly, Sr. should have told Jr. that if he wanted a piece of the company that he could have purchased up to 20% for the company for a certain price. Giving away a piece of the company was not a good move.
     
  11. Nettdata

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    Debatable, I guess. In some sense Jr. could have been considered a founder, but didn't bring as much to the table as Sr. I've had that situation in a couple of start-ups that was built around existing infrastructure.

    Odds are the company was a newly created one to shelter it from the other businesses, and Jr's "talent" was instrumental in creating the unique bikes, justifying the price paid. Probably a buck.

    Regardless, the whole thing is fucked.

    Queue the bike rally where 5 of their bikes disintegrate and wipe out a gaggle of school kids, and OCC is sued into oblivion. Hundreds of birds are killed in the process.
     
  12. E. Tuffmen

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    From what I understand the contract was part of the problem with the shares. It is/was supposedly very vague and open ended.

    You would think a father wound WANT to help his son out and let him have part of a business that he obviously had relatively large part in creating. If anyone has followed the series from earlier years, Junior's contributions have been instrumental, and that's just in front of the cameras. Who knows what was going on behind the scenes? Senior is either a douche, or judging by what I've seen, he's developing some type of mental disorder.
     
  13. scotchcrotch

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    I don't understand why they would parade their own family feud on national television. Are they that desperate for money?

    It's one thing to argue in episodes to drum up ratings, but to create an entire series pitting father against son, what happens if they reconcile? Did their old show drop that badly in ratings they had to raise the stakes and make the entire premise around their fighting?

    However, maybe it's just all fabricated.
     
  14. Nettdata

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    I would imagine that was his reason for the initial share split.

    He's now pissed off and feels like Junior has fucked him over so he's doing everything he can to undermine that and see him fail.
     
  15. Puffman

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    The whole time Jr. was collecting a paycheck for building those bikes. It is not like he was not being compensated for his efforts from the beginning. By the amount of toys he started accumulating it looked like a pretty hefty paycheck also. Then years later he comes to the table and wants a piece of the company also? The whole thing is fucked and would probably make a great case study in how to destroy a great family business.

    That big new building was built during the best of times. I wonder now what kind of a mortgage is on it and maybe the loan exceeds the value of the building. If OCC the company owns the building then maybe the value of the stock really is zero. I will shut my trap now but the whole infighting and business part just intrigues me.
     
  16. Nettdata

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    Oh, I have no doubt that a reasonable theory can be created where either one or both or all involved are the cause of the shit. I just tend to believe that Sr. is the bigger issue, but that very well might be the result of the editing of the show.
     
  17. Guy Fawkes

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    I just watched the latest episode and it's interesting what they're forced to show to even make this a TV show.

    The projects are... a little sad which is just a sign of the times. Taking apart a quad, powder coating some components and putting on some catalog parts counts as a build nowadays? Damn.

    I'm actually proud that Jr. didn't have the TLC camera crews at his wedding. That would have been too much for me.