A note about Gordon's first wife: they married very young, and by all accounts she was a gold-digging trophy wife, who put on the whole show: super religious for the cameras, insisted on being involved in all PR, etc. Not that this is an excuse for infidelity, but the marriage likely wouldn't have lasted. I don't think it's a reflection on how Gordon is in all his relationships. That being said, it has nothing to do with how I feel about Gordon as a driver. He's always been my favourite. When he was on his winning streaks, the most he ever did was win 10 races in one season and win back-to-back championships. Johnson is going far above what Gordon did; Johnson is turning into the Michael Schumacher of NASCAR. While it can be a huge draw for fans to see if the favourite will win, when 'the favourite' becomes 'the only competitive guy out there,' it is a detriment to the sport. Four seasons is enough. We get it. I'd like to see some competition this year, and to not have to focus on "who's going to win second place."
Not to derail the Johnson-bashing (can we throw a little at Jr. as well?), but this is relevant to the thread: NASCAR says the wings will come off soon Regardless, it bothers me that my two favorite sports -- NASCAR and the NBA -- appear headed in the exact wrong direction.
He won 13 races in '98. Mark Martin won his career high of 7 races that year and was 2nd in the points. I've never been a Gordon or Johnson fan, but I appreciate them because I know when I'm watching two of the all-time greats in their prime. As far as Jimmie goes, he and Chad are dialed in. It's reminiscent of Gordon/Evernham in their prime. In a sport where weekly dominance is fleeting and 2 career championships, let alone consecutive championships, are nearly unheard of, the 48 team is making their case for being the best of all time.
I think this is one step backward from the COT. I wasn't a big fan of it in the first place. I understand the improved safety in the new car, but you're barking up the wrong tree if you want to drive cars at 200ish MPH & want to be "safe" When NASCAR starts screwing with things, it seems to backfire somehow. NOW, lets get rid of this top 35 Bullshit.
This bugs me about the format change. The 48 would have won 2 championships in the past 4 years under the old system. I do not know if any of the drivers in the Pre-Chase format would have won multiple championships, but this deserves to be noted. I understand it is a huge accomplishment, and he won the championships under the system he's driving in, but... Now, you can't compare the past 6 years to the previous 47. So, with all due respect, Jimmy Johnson is DEFINITELY the best driver of the past 6years. He is in the running for the best of all time, but he still has 7 drivers that have won more real (old point system) ahead of him.
Huh? Only Petty and Dale have won more "real" championships than him and Jeffy is tied with him. And what makes the old points system any more difficult or real than the current system? If anything, I think it makes it more difficult because it takes away "points racing". Some people claim that Johnson uses the first 26 races to figure stuff out for the last 10, but IMO, that's a strategy on par with points racing in the old system. The only difference is that with the chase, you have to bring it for all 10 races, which makes it a lot more exciting. There's no points racing now. And to say that the chase is less valid of a champoinship system would be to say that all of the other major sports that have a regular season with a playoff don't crown valid champions. By your logic, the Phillies weren't really World Series champions in 2008 because they didn't win the NL pennant the "old fashioned" way by simply winning the most games in the regular season and had to get it by winning playoff games.
Actually if you only count the 2 he would have won under the old system, then - Richard Petty, Dale Earnhardt - 7 Jeff Gordon - 4 Lee Petty, Cale Yarborough, David Pearson, Darrel Waltrip - 3 I only bring them up because they won their championships under a different points system. Maybe "real" was a poor choice of words, how about "the way it was done from 1949 - 2004"? The old points system isn't any more difficult, or "real" it's just different. I never was really happy with someone winning 9-10 races in a year & coming in second to a guy that finished 3 every race (Rusty Wallace - Dale Sr. 1994 I think?). This did reward my favorite driver in 2003, and his championship probably led to the rule change. All I'm saying is, if the rules change, then basis you compare present day "greatness" to the greats of yesteryear is skewed. I actually like the newer points system better, I'm just a little sick of the JJ winning every effing year. The problem with the baseball analogy is that baseball still rewards a "w" for a win. If they change the value of a run, then I can see your point.
I can dig that argument. Still, if you look at the nuts and bolts of it, JJ is winning races consistently in a stacked field. Never before has there been such an attempt at achieving parity between the cars, yet Chad is clever enough to always find the gray area in a seemingly black and white rule and JJ brings it all home. Yes, it's a different system in terms of the championship, but the 48 seems to have a parking spot reserved in victory lane amidst an unprecedentedly talented field. I'm sick of seeing the 48 winning all the time, too, but he's damn good. People hated Gordon for the same reason (and because people wanted him to be the arch-nemesis of Dale, even though the two were friends and business partners). It it was up to me, I would split it into 3 eras Era 1: 1949-1971 The Glory Days This is when anything went. Porsches, Astin Martins, Ford, Chevy, whatever. If it had four wheels and a hood, you could qualify with it. In the 60's when Richard was running the Dodge Daytona cars with the big wing, he was obviously winning a ton more races because he was getting so much more downforce. Petty had the clear mechanical advantage and because of it (combined with the fact that they were running 55-60 cup races a year back then), won 200 races. Petty often claims that David Pearson was a better driver than him, he just had the better equipment. Parity among the cars wasn't considered. Detroit was a big sponsor and so were the local dealerships. Race on Sunday, sell cars on Monday was the motivation. Era 2: 1972-2003, The Winston Era Winston enters the fray. Little Bill takes over and brings some parity to the cars and the crew cheifs instantly try to find ways around the rules. Cale, DW, and Dale all won their share of races in similar style cars. Era 3: 2004-Present The Chase format is implemented. Provisionals are done away with except for past champions. More talent is in the field than ever before and with all cars being cookie cutters, it's even harder to win races consistently than ever before. JJ still finds a way to dominate.
How cool would it be to see convertibles on the track? I wonder what kind of violations NASCAR would have found if they had the ability to test equipment. Either from this era, or the Winston Cup period. I agree the 48 is the best out there right now, and for the foreseeable future. When will this stop? For Gordon, it was when Ray decided he wanted to be a team owner. I think if Chad leaves, you'd see Jimmie come back to earth. The one thing that amazes/infuriates me is that a "bad" day for them is a 16th(ish) place finish. If the car isn't there, they don't just write the day off, they grind it out, all the while making changes. Turning what to any other team in the series a disastrous day into a respectable finish. I think for the time being we're just going to have to watch the "Jimmie Johnson +42 show"
This is the best NASCAR discussion I've seen in years. Why don't you guys live in Canada? And why do you all have to be married? I can never remember the name of this DVD, and it was a bastard to find when I bought it for my dad, but the best example I've seen of "The Golden Era" was when they gathered 25 of the best (essentially everybody who'd ever one a championship and was still alive), sat them in a room and had them tell stories about the good ole days. It's called Legends of Stock Car Racing, or something like that. I'll check out my dad's DVD collection and get the for-sure name, but anyone who wants four hours of pure entertainment should buy a copy. They tell all the stories about how they used to cheat and fight and every other thing you can do at a race track, before there were all these silly things called 'rules.'
There is nothing I can add to the above discussion, simply because I A) wasn't alive when most of this was going on and B) just got into the sport a few years ago (that's still enough time to see that Jr. is a whining vagina who needs to be permanently incorporated as a living piece of the safer barrier at Talladega). That being said, for those of you older farts, I imagine this young farts technology might be of interest: Indianapolis 500 Legends It was like a history lesson rolled into hours upon hours of awesome. If any of the race fans on here likes to fuck around with games, I can promise you that it's worth the $15 or so. Continue on. This is interesting.
You should try to find the 1959 Daytona 500. There was a convertible class and a hard top class. Oddly enough, the convertibles had a lot more drag, a lot less downforce, or a little of both and were completely outclassed by the hard tops. Because of that, 1959 was the only year they ran convertibles at Daytona. If you've ever wondered why qualifying at Daytona is different, it's because of this. Until the Winston Era (1971) points were awarded in the Grand National Series for qualifying, so they had seperate qualifying races for the convertibles and hard tops. They only had the convertibles for one year, but the Twin 125's became a tradition at Daytona and are still around today.
Maybe it's just my age, but I love era 2 (though what I'm about to say applies to era 1, too.) Even the stuff in the 80s I was too young to remember first hand. I like the idea of everyone starting off with a couple different platforms, then shoving everything they could get away with through. There was a good mix of parity, but some random engineer (Ernie Elliott, anyone?) could figure something out and blow everyone away for awhile. Then others would figure it out, or the manufacturers would step it up with a new car design. In short, there was enough equality that anyone could get in the game, but enough constantly changing variables that nobody could get a lockdown on the tech, and focus on super minute .0001 of an inch adjustments. Even if you did that with a chevy, Pontiac would come out with a new nose, or Ford would change the slope of the rear window, sending you back to the drawing board. Now it is merely a question of who can throw the most R&D cash at the one car everybody runs. And that's just no fun. I'm afraid NASCAR will look like IRL in a season or two.
Am I the only one that finds himself watching more trucks/busch league and less of the sprint? Yeah, the drivers aren't as talented, but they have less to lose and more to gain. They actually drive out there, crash, push each other around. Hell, I'm typing this during the start of the trucks and there was just some major contact in the first fucking lap. I'd be curious to see what the numbers are. I can't possibly be the only one.
I was actually about to recommend just that. I've found myself watching the Truck series more and more. Today's race at Atlanta was exciting from the drop of the green flag with Matt Crafton's 3 wide dive. The only Cup drivers who bother to do the truck races with any regularity are guys like Harvick and Kyle Busch -- neither are afraid to beat and bang a little. Plus some of the regulars put up a good fight (when they're not wrecking each other out.)
This is EXACTLY why I am a fan of Kyle Busch. Not because he's a good person or professional (he's seemingly a cool person, and a terrible professional, but such is his stigma), but because he gives me reason to put my ass in front of the tv. Want to fix NASCAR? Flip-flop the lengths of the races, and reward drivers for taking risks. Truck drivers have to go 900 laps or whatever it is the sprint guys do -- while they're aggressive, they have to prove they have enough intelligence to have longevity, in order to move up. Sprint, with the "most talented guys" is shorter, truck length. Balls to the wall for 150 laps (yes, I know, the sponsors want it longer so they can advertise... have the drivers do more sponsor commercials during the week), and give heavier driver points to whomever leads a lap, with fractions of a point for every descending position off the front. Make it to where even the 32nd place guy can gain .1 of a point for moving up to 20th. Who cares if it's slightly shorter? Hell, put a "halftime" in the middle for "drivers to rehydrate" and fans to case race. I want to see racing, not pacing.
The only reason I would support shorter races is to limit the number of times I see that fucking Truex/Napa/Got The Know How commercial. I'm gonna try counting the number of times I see it today. It seriously has to be close to 20. And that song haunts my dreams. Earlier this week I was flipping through the guide and saw "Classic NASCAR" on one of the channels. I got jacked up and flipped it there only to find some race from 2005. I remember a few years ago that ESPN Classic would show races from the 80's (mostly) in the month or so before Daytona. I grew up watching that era so I loved it. I wish they would show more of these older races. For me, the best part about it was the crew chiefs and how they would get around the rules. A lot of people call it cheating today, but I love the creativity and ingenuity the sport had. When they made a rule regulating the size of the fuel tank, some teams simply put 100 feet of fuel line in, or something like that. Gave them a couple extra gallons. Regulating every tiny little aspect of the cars takes that part of the sport away and I really don't like it. Oh, and fistfights in the infield. I need to see that more often.
1. I fully agree about the trucks/Nationwide races. In fact, if I was going to recommend a race to a novice watcher who'd never seen the sport, I'd have them watch the truck races because they're far more exciting than most Cup racing these days. Less experienced drivers, far more aero-unstable vehicles, and typically shorter events. Works out well. 2. Holy airborn car, Batman! Did you all see the #12 fly? And then they black-flagged Edwards for aggressive driving! Jesus Christ, when was the last time NASCAR pulled a car off the track during a race to impose a penalty? And if you saw the buildup of what happened throughout the race, I can't even blame Edwards. Especially since he's rarely a hothead. I do have to fault him for making it so obvious, though. He should have had a tad bit more political skill than that. Oh, well...it was exciting. 3. Kurt Busch. If it's between Jimmie Johnson and Kurt Busch, I think I'd drink poison.
2. These cars are like damn kites.... on second thought, DON'T change the rear wing. It works just fine. Juuuuuust fiiiiinnneee. Hell, someone said bring back the convertibles, yeah, definitely. Someone forgot to check the reverse lift properties of the damn airplane wing on the back of the cars; let's stick Jr.s little hill billy ass in one of those things and see him hit the Daytona potholes upside down. The more and more I watch Edwards, the more I like him. He's a nice guy, and he races the right way when unprovoked, but if you try to stick your dick in his asshole he's gonna turn right around and fuck you with it. 3. One step closer to Kyle. I'd rather passionately hate the winner because he was a dick, than passionately hate the winner because he had no passion and was boring as watching a damn chess match in the dark.