2009-2010 MLB Offseason

As a Phillies fan, I wanted them to have both Lee and Halladay, and am a little uncomfortable since Lee paid off huge in the playoffs, even though he had 0 playoff experience for last year.

I think the big plus here though is that Halladay is supposedly a better pitcher, and the Phils are locking him up for 3 years, whereas Lee would have walked after 2010.

Overall I like it.

 

Because Cliff Lee was good in 40 innings?

Halladay is clearly better than Lee, and there's no reason why he wouldn't be better in the playoffs. If the trade goes through, I would bet the over on Halladay +/- 19.5 wins. Eh, maybe I wouldn't. Anyway, Halladay is a HOF-caliber pitcher, any team would be better with him on it.

 

Except Halladay has been pitching in Toronto his whole career with ZERO pressure. And last year when the trade rumors started swirling his performance declined. Lee was absolutely amazing in the playoffs, and if I was a Phillies fan I'd have preferred to stick with Lee. PLUS the Blue Jays are getting TWO prospects from the Phillies, not exactly top prospects, but one of these guys is a catcher (d'Arnaud) and the Phils are so desperate for catching they just signed Brian fucking Schneider.

Then again, Halladay goes from facing the Yanks, Rays and Sox all season to facing the Nats, Braves Mets and Marlins. So he's probably going to have a sick season.

 

Happy the Sox didn't give up anything except money to get Lackey. Rumors are also swirling that they're negotiating an extension with Josh Beckett which is a smart move. Beckett is worth it and he's a little bit of a prima donna so Lackey being there and appearing more valuable than him might effect his performance.

I would have preferred Halladay since he's my favorite pitcher in baseball but at least he'll be in the NL and on my second favorite NL team (Cubs are #1).

In typical Red Sox fan fashion every caller to the sports shows is crying about how the Sox need bats and need Bay which is very annoying. I'm sure they'll do something since obviously Bay's & Lowell's production needs to be replaced but it won't happen today.

 

Are you upset about Bay?

I don't know why the Phils can't keep lee this year. It's only 9 million to keep him, salary is around 160 plus 16 for Haliday plus 9 for Lee, it's still less than the Yanks and Sox!!!

 

I'm lukewarm about Bay. I like his output, I like his disposition, I like that he's proven he can find success in Boston. I don't like that he'll currently cost the Red Sox in the neighborhood of 5yrs/$75M. He isn't worth that much (nor is Holliday imo either).

It would have been nice for the Phils to keep Lee but Toronto wanted prospects in bulk that the Phils didn't have. They needed the Mariner's talent to get Toronto to free up Halladay. I'm not in-tune with what the payroll expectations for Philly this season and 2011 are but I think the possibility of the resigning Lee after 2010 was unlikely so they decided to get something for him. At the end of the day Halladay>Lee is all that matters.

 

I don't think this is strictly correct; The deal was actually two separate ones.

Philly traded Cliff Lee for Aumont, Gillies and J.C Ramirez.

Aceless, they also traded Kyle Drabek, Taylor and D'arnaud to get Roy Halladay.

They could have traded their three prospects, got Halladay and also retained Cliff Lee. It's clear they felt this was too expensive and damaging long term, so they decided that the upgrade from Lee to Halladay was greater than or equal to the downgrade from Drabek/Taylor/D'Arnaud to Aumont/Gillies/Ramirez.

Hope that made sense.

 

[/quote] FROM GUY FAWKES***************

I'm lukewarm about Bay. I like his output, I like his disposition, I like that he's proven he can find success in Boston. I don't like that he'll currently cost the Red Sox in the neighborhood of 5yrs/$75M. He isn't worth that much (nor is Holliday imo either).

It would have been nice for the Phils to keep Lee but Toronto wanted prospects in bulk that the Phils didn't have. They needed the Mariner's talent to get Toronto to free up Halladay. I'm not in-tune with what the payroll expectations for Philly this season and 2011 are but I think the possibility of the resigning Lee after 2010 was unlikely so they decided to get something for him. At the end of the day Halladay>Lee is all that matters.[/quote] end quote from GUY FAWKES************

I think he is right here. Following this closely as the good phils fan I am, the organazation was in need to replenish young players after giving up the guys last year for Lee, and then the players presently for Halliday. Everyone claims it does not have that much to do with money but you know it's an issue.

My problem (as a fan of course) is that having Lee now vs. the young prospects for the future seems like a no-brainer. Barring an injury or disaster A Halliday, Lee, Hammels rotation should get us back to the NLCS and make us favored to win the series. (Even with the Sox getting Lackey) I know you have to protect the integrity of an organazation but Lee is SO GOOD, that for 9 million I don't know how you can pass up the chance.

The Phils are in the top ten in payroll (7th last year I think) but what you are seeing is the difference between Philly and NY and the Sox. Everyone harps on the two big guns for throwing money around and buying players, if I was a fan of either team I would love them for it. As a fan of baseball I can understand the problems that arise, but if I was a Yanks fan I'd live with it. If this identical situation was happening in NY I think they would keep Lee.

I'm glad to see the Phils lock up one of the best pitchers in the past five years but I can't help but wonder how good they could have been with a Halliday, Lee punch. The Giants were good because of Lincecum and Cain and they had NO offense. I can't imagine what the Phils would have done.

sorry about the quotes, I don't know why they will not transfer over.

 

Dave Montgomery was on a radio talk show on wednesday and said they did not keep Lee because "the owners were not making enough money" Very hard to believe.

Although who is to say what "enough" is?

I sure wish we had Cliff Lee.

 

I think the Phillies went out and got the best pitcher that was available which is always what you want your team to do. While Lee is a very good pitcher I think the fact that he only costs $9M weighs heavily on his "value" to a team. With a dozen of so teams able to pay for a huge money, proven ace like Sabathia, Santana, Halladay, Wakefield etc when one of these guys becomes available you grab them.

The Red Sox announced today that they offered Matt Holliday 5yrs/$82.5M before they signed Lackey. I can't think of a single reason they would announce this other than to rub it in Jason Bay's face. The team most certainly needs offense as a priority but after Holliday passed on the deal (or didn't respond) they went after pitching rather than giving the second best FA OF another bid.

The only thing I can assume is that they'll move prospects/young roster guys to get a bat now. Buchholz seems like the most likely option though Casey Kelly is a very highly regarded prospect who's name has been thrown around quite a bit.

No offense to the legions of Mike Cameron and Marco Scutaro fans out there but they ain't enough.

 

Forgot to add that Boras completely fucked Damon.

The Yankees are the only team I can see giving Damon anywhere close to $10M per year but Boras had to push for $13M per and the Yankees smartly moved on (they'll grow tired of Boras trying to take them to the cleaners on every player like the Sox have).

Any thoughts on where Damon might land? Would you want him playing every day on your team?

 

Awesome. That just made my day.

On topic though: HOW THE FUCK DID THE MARINERS GET CLIFF LEE? Lee, Hernandez, the best defense in baseball, and now Milton Bradley? The Mariners are looking like a very dangerous team.

 

Do you know how many Cubs fans went "And now Milton Bradley?!" The minute he does not like what is going on he becomes like the demon 'giner being discussed on the drunk thread-there is no escaping it once it becomes self-aware. Say whatever you want about the fans, owners, and Piniella, but there was nothing people wanted more than to see him get going because we knew what he was capable of. Again, he got into his own head, demon 'giner was unleashed, it barged into the bleachers and lay waste to all of North Chicago. Have fun watching Ken Wakamatsu juggle nitroglycerin all summer

 

Glad someone caught my Wake edit.

The Mariners got Lee because they were willing to package up the prospects needed to get the deal done. Since Philly has been working on and off at getting Halladay since last summer they must have finally decided that another team was needed to get Toronto the number of prospects they wanted.

The Mariners are rather quickly becoming a force in the AL West. I think there is a bigger upside for the Mariners in this trade. Bradley is a good player when things are going well and the pressure isn't high. A fresh start in Seattle where the fans aren't as volatile as Chicago is the perfect place for him to land.

With the Angel's so far missing the boat on every player they've been linked to and losing Lackey, Oakland playing within their budget and Texas being sold and only (maybe) picking up Mike Lowell as their big offensive move this year bodes well for Seattle.

 

I can't imagine paying that guy 10 million a year. On the flipside he was a BEAST in the world series. I will still stick to my initial argument that he deserved the MVP. (co mvp with Jeter) ( I realize what Matsui's numbers were, but he didn't even play in every game)

Aside from batting 380 somthing and winning game four by himself he was an awful at bat for every pitcher. Any serious fans or old players no what it is to spoil a pitch and Damon is the king of it. He would take a guy for 14 or 15 pitch's and then get a single.

The sad truth is that the Yankee's (or possibly the sox) are the only team who could really pay 20 million for leadership in the Playoffs. Damon is a dismal outfielder, 36 years old and only batted 282 last year with 24 HR's (in a hitters ball park) if he doesn't come down in price I can't see anyone signing him.

I cringed everytime he came up to bat in the world series so I sure hope he doesn't go to Atlanta, the Mets or Florida.

<a class="postlink" href="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/dan_shaughnessy/12/21/damon/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/w ... /21/damon/</a>

 

Jays reportedly trade League and a prospect to Mariners for Brendan Morrow.
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=303289" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=303289</a>
Olney says the 'prospect' is Overbay, but you can find a report that says just about anyone.

If Olney is right, I think this is a great move by the Jays. Morrow still has a ton of potential, leave him as a starter and let him figure it out there.
League has great stuff, but is inconsistent.
If it is Overbay, nothing more than a salary dump by the Jays to open room at 1b for Lind or Wallace, but he should be a good player for them.

It actually seems like one of those deals that is good for both teams.

 

Look's like Andre Dawson made it into the Hall today. In other news Big mac get's less and less votes every year!

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/07/sports/baseball/07hall.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/07/sport ... 7hall.html</a>

 

Hell yeah my Cardinals signed Matt Holliday to a 7 year 120 million dollar contract. That is most certainly gonna keep my boy Albert Pujols happy when he comes up to be resigned. I think we may have overpaid a little on this one but only time will tell. With our lineup set except for third base and the one two punch of Wainwright and Carpenter everybody in the NL better watch out.

 

You don't say.

McGwire admits steroid use.