Since a lot of us have seen it already, why not a thread to discuss all of its complexities? I know I'm still trying to unravel the movie. I had a few questions: 1. How did Leo and the wifey first get into their subconscious state without that little briefcase and the sedative? 2. If they get killed in each level, they wake up in the one before... even if they are dead or alive in the one before? 3. How did Leo and Chinese dude wake up on the plane even though they drowned in the first dream, dropped from an elevator in the second and shot, blown up in the third, and *shoot themselves* (I think) in the subconscious without the kick in each level? 4. Is the whole building dreams off of memories based on the fact that you can get lost in the dreams and start to believe they are the reality, like wifey did?
They did go under with the thing, but they ended up way further under than they were intended to go. The further down you go, the faster your brain is working, so the "Limbo" they were talking about, they spent 50 years there in a couple minutes, maybe a couple hours. Generally, if you get killed in the level you're on, you wake up in the next level closer to real. The problem was that with the sedative, that wouldn't wake you up. You'd instead sink down to Limbo. This is why I need to watch it multiple more times. From what I remember, killing yourself is the way out of Limbo. You're already as far down as you can go. So: shooting themselves in limbo woke them up to the third dream, where they got (gravity) dropped by the explosions, which woke them up to the second dream (office building), where they fell in the elevator which woke them to the first dream, where the water from the river woke them to the "real" world on the plane. Seemed like it was more about if you build the dreamscape off of memories, your subconscious (or the subject's) is going to populate it with people that are more likely to recognize something is wrong. Let me say again, this film is going to be nominated for Best Picture, and I haven't seen anything that can compete with it yet. The main question that can't be answered is was Leo's real world really real? I say yes. He'd already seen his totem react to gravity correctly earlier in the movie, and at the end, it wobbled real good right before the credits. I say he was in the real world.
This is 100% a movie you need to see twice. I saw so much shit the second time that I missed the first time. One of them might have been a HUGE clue that he might still be dreaming at the end. Spoiler When he meets the chemist for the first time, and the chemist gives him a taste of his super sedative. Cobb has those visions of his wife, and like earlier in the movie, he wakes up and runs to the bathroom to try the top-spinning trick to see if he's back in reality. What happens this time though, is that Saito walks in and interrupts him before he can try to spin it, and he never tries to spin it the rest of the movie (Until the final scene). It's possible that he's still dreaming in Mombassa the whole rest of the movie and none of the other shit actually ever happened. In fact, several people keep telling him to come back to reality after this point.
Iczorro, I think he's back to reality in the end on the sole fact that during his 'dreams' he never gets to see his kids' faces until the very end. And if you remember when we first learned about his kids in the back yard and Leo taking the plane ticket, he is incapable of seeing their faces because he 'missed his chance'. Although you do bring up a good point with the top spinning and everyone telling him to come back.
I'm content to believe that he's in reality at the end, but the ending was obviously designed to give you a reason to see it again and come up with tons of wacky theories. That he finally saw his kids faces doesn't actually mean he's in reality-- remember that he could have seen their faces in limbo, but he chose not to. I thought it was damn near a perfect movie (cue contrarian asshole to come shit all over it). As Cobb was getting off the plane at the end though, I was thinking: "Wait a minute, he did ALL THAT FUCKING SHIT just to pass through CUSTOMS?" It's not a big flaw, but think about it: his entire motivation for inception is to be able to see his kids. WELL WHY THE FUCK CAN'T HE JUST SMUGGLE HIMSELF IN THE COUNTRY? GROW A FUCKING BEARD OR SOMETHING! I know I know, that's not a permanent solution, and he wanted to be able to live with them permanently free from fear/guilt. But there is no reason that he could NEVER see them at all--he's got criminal connections, you're telling me he can't come in on a shrimp boat or some shit? I still see his motivation, I just thought it was funny that he went through crazy mind bending triple layer dream heist to just to pass through fucking customs. Thousands of tons of drugs/refuges are smuggled into the U.S all the time dude, I think you'll find a way in. (And don't even say they could have had someone watching his kids 24/7 to see if he came back, that's retarded). Didn't take away from the movie at all, was just wondering if anyone else had similar thoughts.
Maybe that's how he thought his kids would look. He did say that even though your not the architect you subconscious fills in the other stuff. Now id hate to say his kids are the other stuff but who knows. I think he's scared to try and go back for fear of getting caught. He has already "lost" his wife and hes probably afraid he wont see his kids either if he gets hauled of to jail for the murder charge.
I think he is still dreaming, and that the whole movie takes place in his dream. The scene at the end with his kids just seemed to similar to his fantasy. The kids are playing in the same spot, and are dressed exactly the same as in his subconscious. I think this explanation makes the character in the movie more interesting. If each character is a projection of his subconscious what do they represent? It also explains why the other characters seem to lack motivation for what they're doing, especially the Juno girl.
On the way back from the movie, my girlfriend and I both discussed what we thought of the ending, and she was definitely in the "never woke up" camp and I thought he was in reality. She brought up the scene in the bathroom where he is disrupted by Saito and knocks his item onto the ground. She also mentioned that his children have barely aged, although I got the feeling that in "reality" his wife hasn't been dead for THAT long. I'd like to see the movie again now that I know what I know, because after thinking about it I'm not quite sure anymore. Beyond the questions of the movie, did anyone else have a giant problem with Ellen Page? She was completely outclassed and out-acted in every way by every member of the cast. I'd expect this out of DiCaprio, Watanabe, Murphy, and Caine (even in his small screen time), but Hardy and Gordon-Levitt just blew her out of the water. I wish they would have picked another actress for her part.
That doesn't work for me. If he's still dreaming, then the top wouldn't have stopped spinning the earlier times. In the first hour or so, he tests himself like 3 times with the top, holding a gun to his head in case it doesn't fall over. If he's still dreaming, he would be in Mombassa still sampling the super sedative from the chemist.
I assumed his wife wasnt dead that long either maybe a year or two. So I dont think his kids would have changed much in that time. Was there ever a time when he spun the top and it actually fell over or was he interupeted every time? I thought she was OK in the movie but not the greatest. Gordon-Levitt I think is a fine actor when he wants to be, So I expected him to do well. Hardy shocked me the most! I didn't think he would be able to hang with such a major cast but he did a hell of a job.
Ellen Page did what she could with what she was given. Nolan has never been able to write a decent female role. The main problem with her character was that as the "New member" of this type of job, a lot of her dialogue was exposition, explaining things to the audience in the guise of learning. How kick ass was the no gravity fighting in the hotel? And how Bond-esque was the ski sequence? Awesome.
The no gravity scene was sick as hell and Joseph Gordon-Levitt was actually a bad ass. I was thinking the same thing about the ski sequence, Hardy must have tapped his inner bond on those scenes. Speaking of all the fight scenes how come all of Leo's team are all such bad ass's? Is it because they know they are dreaming so they have no fear or were they actually trained in real life? I loved that Tom Berenger was back! I haven't seen him since i don't know training day I think.
I thought he woke up too, but you didn't even address Prof's argument about the kids being in the same spot and dressed exactly the same. That's not ignorable, and that's such a good fucking point, I can't believe I missed it. I can see the kids not aging due to the time distortion, etc., but playing in the same spot? With the same clothes? No fucking way. No. Fucking. Way. That doesn't mean the whole movie is a dream though. Everything could be reality up until the end scene where he returns to the plane -- THAT could be the fantasy. If I remember correctly, no one on the plane said anything to him at all. That's weird, especially since everyone would be worried about Cobb being alone in limbo, and that's behavior that fits exactly with his subconscious fucking with him. I read another interesting thing. Quote from Cinemablend: I think this still fits with Cobb being in a dream at the end of the movie. He wants to believe it so badly, and he feels he'd made peace with Mal, that he doesn't imagine himself with the ring anymore.
Tinfoil hat much? How do you turn that into an argument FOR dreamland? I'm not saying I know the answer, but that's pretty clearly a "reality" clue. I do think however that most of the evidence points to him being in reality, so that's what I'm gonna go with because that's happy. I thought it was really well done. The part with the BBBRRRROOOOOMMMGGGGGGGG from the trailer was so fucking awesome. As for Ellen Page, I thought she did a fine job for not having much of a character. Held her own. Plus she's a cutie.
Those scenes by themselves put this movie on the map. This movie almost has a Matrix type quality with just insane almost never seen before visuals. I found myself wondering why they were not just a little more powerful in the dreams, of course they did each kill about twenty sub conscience agents a piece but I wondered why they didn't make themselves invincible. The scene were Ames tells Arthur to "dream bigger" he comes out with a grenade launcher. If they made themselves fly or something ridiculous like that would it be way to much changing for the sub conscience? I gave a review on the movie recommending that you just take whatever they say as gospel, however this thread is perfect to do just the opposite. I was also wondering why the architect made everything so real. Dreams are not always so tangible.
Tinfoil Hat? What are you, fucking stupid? "I think the evidence points to him being in reality?" What evidence? There is not ONE incontrovertible event in the end that points to Cobb being in reality. I challenge you to name ONE. Oh wait, you just base what you feel on emotions, not evidence. Nevermind. There are inarguable things that point to Cobb being in a dream. One of them, as mentioned above, is the final scene being virtually identical to Cobb's memories. This isn't arguable. Frame for frame, his children are in the same place, wearing the same clothes, and they turn around in the same manner. As for the ring, I did not offer an argument. I offered an explanation reconciling two contradictory details. And since you're unable to read between the lines, I'll spell it out for you, piece by piece. Cobb wore the ring in the dream world for the entire movie. Yet the scene in the end is identical to his memories, and presents much stronger evidence that he's still in a dream world, despite the missing ring. The main event that would explain this is Cobb making peace with himself and erasing his guilt. The ring is a physical representation of the aforementioned guilt. It is a constant reminder in the dream world of Cobb's wife and his perceived mistakes. After he no longer feels guilt for what happened, he no longer wears the ring. In other words, he is no longer burdened by his feelings. The ring symbolizes Cobb's feelings of guilt, not whether or not he is in reality.
I think you hit the nail on the head. Changing things makes the dreamer aware that something is wrong. Remember what happened to the girl when she was fucking shit up? She got stabbed in the gut.
This was given kind of a throwaway explanation. When Leo and Page are sitting in the dream cafe, he says, "It's only after you wake up that things from a dream seem hazy and off. When you're in it, it feels real."
There is not ONE incontrovertible event in the end that points to Cobb being in reality. I challenge you to name ONE.