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Fubruary Book Club: Blood Meridian.

Discussion in 'Books' started by Not the Bees!, Feb 1, 2015.

  1. Not the Bees!

    Not the Bees!
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    Ok guys, hopefully this generates a bit more conversation than last month. This month's book is Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy.
     
  2. Flat_Rate

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    “The wrath of God lies sleeping. It was hid a million years before men were and only men have the power to wake it. Hell aint half full. Hear me. Ye carry war of a madman’s making onto a foreign land. Ye’ll wake more than the dogs.”


    It's one of my favorite books. I always liked the ending but I know some wish it was more clear.
     
  3. Crown Royal

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    I look forward to this one because I have not read it. I'm not familiar with McCarthy at all, truthfully.

    So, I just went out and bought it. Judging by the across-the-board praise its recieved on TiB I doubt it will disappoint. My friend said it was the most horrific book he's ever read (in a good way). Judging by the quotes people use it seems like real Stream Of Consciousness stuff.
     
  4. Kampf Trinker

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    I love the ending. I think if it was written in a more straight forward manner it would have taken a lot of magnetism out of the text.
    Especially the dialogue from the judge in that last conversation

    Speaking of the ending - first time I read the book I thought I knew what happened, not referring to ways you can interpret the language, but with regards to how the scene played out was fairly straight forward.

    The kid, now the man, goes into the Jakes where he is murdered by the judge. Possibly raped, but that specific question doesn't seem overly important. The judge returns to complete his ritual and says 'he'll never die' basically meaning what he represents will live on forever.

    However, when I read it a second time there seems to be a completely different interpretation as to what actually happened.

    Throughout the book, especially in the last 100 pages the judge seems to consider himself a father figure to the kid. He never seems interested in killing him. Even in the last scene he never says "I'm going to kill you." Instead he says "This night thy soul may be required of thee." He also talks constantly to the kid about how he's disappointed in him and continually suggests the kid is conflicted. Although we see a little more humanity out of the kid relative to the rest of the gang, he doesn't usually seem as conflicted as the judge suggests.
    Then you look back at all the missing children in the book. Notice that when a boy goes missing it's almost always clearly linked to the judge, but this isn't the case when any of the girls go missing. In the last scene too, a child goes missing shortly before the kid wanders out to the Jakes. It seems entirely plausible the little girl was raped by both the judge and the kid, explaining the judge's nudity.
    After the Jakes the third man in the scene is described as wearing the same clothes as the kid and is referred to simply as 'the man' like the kid is at this point. Throughout the book the judge is never referred to as the man, he's either called Holden, or the judge.
    It explains the revulsion by the other two men who open up the outhouse, and if you look at the dialogue between the judge and the kid during the book this ending actually fits really well, and makes more sense the judge killing him.
    Not sure if that's what happened, or whether there even is a correct answer. I think it's intentionally ambiguous with McCarthy letting the reader choose between one horrible ending or the other. Personally I like the first ending better.

    I'm curious to see what everyone thinks about this book. For my money it's one of the best novels ever written, and in terms of just beautifully written and well constructed passages it doesn't have any equal, in my opinion.
     
  5. Flat_Rate

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    McCarthy has never granted an interview relating to the book, from what I read this is his way of leaving the ending open for interpretation.
     
  6. AlexWolfe

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    I didn't know this before I started digging into the book more, but McCarthy based Judge Holden's character on a firsthand historical account. The book it's based off of is called My Confessions by Samuel Chamberlain, who was one of the members of John Joel Glanton's gang. The book is too expensive to buy, but I found an excerpt of the relevant Judge Holden part, and it might be interesting to put here:

    Source: http://www.quora.com/Arizona-History/To ... Confession

    EDIT: I found another, more obtainable, and promising book that explores the history of Blood Meridian through its primary sources, including My Confession, here it is in case anyone else is interested as well: http://amzn.to/1yRN3au
     
  7. MobyDuk

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    I think of Blood Meridian as the first hallucinogenic western (i.e., cowboy) novel. Sort of a Naked Lunch with boots and saddles or The Searchers on acid. Not that there's anything wrong with that. A movie would truly be something to see.

    It was horrific, and yet I couldn't out it down. In fact, it kept me awake a couple of nights. I didn't much care for the ending, but hadn't expected it would be upbeat.

    The only other McCarthy book I've read was All the Pretty Horses and it didn't work for me - too predictable, maybe. I did like the movie. Maybe I need to re-read the book.

    I saw, but didn't read, The Road. That was truly dismal, but hey, at least there was a happy ending. Sorta.
     
  8. Kampf Trinker

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    Yeah, it's pretty insane to know that while certain aspects of the book are fictionalized the violence in the book isn't exaggerated. I remember reading a cracked article about how there was actually very little violence during the western expansion. Sure... and all those people just disappeared and went poof. People need to stop linking that site like it's a legitimate source.

    How would you like to be a Mexican during that time period? "Sure there's all these natives and random scalp hunters trying to kill you, but we can't let you legally own a gun. That's just crazy. We don't want things to get violent."

    One of the funniest things about the western expansion is the total lack of consistency in how justice was applied. Glanton murdered someone and just got kicked out of his unit. Other people got hanged for next to nothing.

    I'm enough of a nerd that I wanted to buy My Confession, but I just couldn't justify spending that kind of cash on a book related to a book I really liked. I might try the one you put in the link.

    Part of what I liked about this book is practically everything else you see about the era either has some political agenda, involves an entertaining, but completely romanticized way of looking at things, or is just pulp entertainment. Blood Meridian is, for at least its subject matter, a much more accurate portrayal than pretty much anything else you'll find out there. Reading the book kind of reminded me of the saying 'the winners write the history.' That's actually not always true, and America's western expansion is a perfect example of the opposite being the case. It's commonly described as tribes of gentle nature lovers being massacred for no reason, but the history is a lot more complicated than that. Don't get me wrong, there were some peaceful tribes that got completely fucked over, but a lot of them were savage lunatics as well, and that generally gets left out of the narrative.
     
  9. Crown Royal

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    Just finished right now. It seems like this book is a clothesline to hang mid 19th century atrocities on.

    I am blown away. This book is in my top ten of all time, easily. McCarthy changes narrative and writing styles, going from stilted, descriptive storytelling to trippy-Stream Of Consciousness almost like he has a MPD. This entire story is utterly etched in dust, mud, spit, sweat, gun black and especially gore.

    It has not one kind character, not one reason to give a shit about these monsters and yet you do anyway. This novel has such a southern flavour to it made me feel almost like I was born into it. The slang, violence, characterization are so believable and authentic its astonishing it was written in the 1980's. I will say: I got GREAT satisfaction in reading Glanton getting butchered. What a piece of shit of a man.

    It has no plot, no point. This is a story of violence and how violence effects them, seen through the eyes of a nasty boy who all but disappears from the entire second half of the narrative but that ALSO doesn't matter. The lesson? The human mind is a horrible thing and makes us do horrible things. This roman-a-clef is disgusting, visceral and all-together BRILLIANT evidence of that.

    Ten out of ten. I want to read it again, right now.
     
  10. CharlesJohnson

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    "Drink up. This night thy soul may be required of thee."

    This line applies both to the characters and the reader. It is a book that demands your attention. Despite having no real plot McCarthy constructed a story that requires the reader's full concentration. That is remarkable. Likewise, your vocabulary will increase whether you want it to or not. Authors like McCarthy, Rushdie, Faulkner write such mellifluous narratives, beautiful prose. But these authors also suffer from style over substance on occasion. I never made it past page 150 of Rushdie's Satanic Verses because, though it was written like the finest poetry, nothing happened. Not one fucking thing. Some of McCarthy's other works, like Suttree, I feel suffer the same. Which is why Blood Meridian is so important to literature. McCarthy has satisfied both requirements; he wrote an entrancing story with the highest quality of the craft.

    Violence has never sounded prettier. He writes these atrocious acts and scenes as though he is tending to his child. I can't imagine how many drafts it took for everything to sound so perfect. That's a feat in its own, that concentration.

    I think the ending is written exact and there isn't much debate as to what really happened.

    The Judge killed and raped the kid. The debate is: in what order?

    But what a creepy ending. Holden, dancing, speaking crazy to anyone in ear shot. "He never sleeps, the judge. He is dancing, dancing. He says that he will never die." And I believe it. The Judge is a terrifying villain. Every scene he is in simmers because you know only that he is capable of any act. The campfire scene especially. Listen to him speak of war as an occupation, speak of himself as having dominion over every creature's existence if he so allows it. More so, capable of rationalizing his actions in the Darwinian sense. I don't think he is a caricature, cartoonish, or unbelievable. Like Anton Chigurh, Holden is an embodiment of the worst capabilities of humans, honed to precision. Crown's right. There is not one likable character, but you read on anyway.
     
  11. Kampf Trinker

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    That's the conventional interpretation, but can I ask why you're so sure of this? It can fit, but it does run into some problems.
    If the judge killed the kid in the final scene, then he's the third man urinating outside the jakes, right? Ok, but why is he referred to as the judge throughout the entire book, and suddenly he's referred to as the man, this one and only time? Why is he described as wearing the same clothes as the kid was earlier in the scene? If it is the judge, why does he put his clothes back on only to take them off again as soon as he reenters the tavern? If the judge is interested in killing the kid the entire time why does he never allude to it? Why does he constantly talk about being disappointed in the kid and wanting to convert him, or 'release' him? Why does McCarthy go out of his way to link the judge to all the boys that go missing, but never the girls?

    I'm not sure that's what happened, but I just don't see how people can say it's without debate. If McCarthy meant for it to be that clear he would stated it point blank like he does virtually every other violent act in the book. I have a lot of trouble believing, for example, that that sudden change in narrative description just happened randomly for no reason.

    In any case, I think what's more important in the ending is what it says about people. There's so many quotes I love in this book, I can't list them all.
    So fitting for the subject matter and the era the book takes place in, when entire groups of people were being wiped out. Also -

    Got to love the description of scenery throughout this book.
     
  12. Crown Royal

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    Look at the ending like a Tool song: the writer(s) have THEIR unspoken interpretation, but they let you decide on what you personally feel it's about on your own. Call it however you want, it's about the journey and not the destination.
     
  13. abneretta

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    I highly recommend giving The Last Pale Light in the West by Ben Nichols a listen if you haven't already. It's a concept album inspired by Blood Meridian and, even putting aside my massive crush on all things Lucero and Ben Nichols, it's fucking amazing.