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Elephants and Jackasses...

Discussion in 'Permanent Threads' started by Nettdata, Oct 14, 2016.

  1. Trickysista

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    I thought about posting about this a few days ago after it started blowing up in the media and on my facebook feed. But like Rush said, there are so many gray areas and misinformation, it's hard to wade thru all the bullshit. Conservatives are posting shit about a law being put in place in 1997 stating children must be separated from their parents. Another person claims it's a 2003 court ruling that permits them to separate families. A quick google search told me that was all a lie. Homeland Security says it's a policy that's always been in place. Not to mention that dumbass we have as a President "didn't know" he could stop it?!

    As a mother myself, listening to the recording of children crying out for their mothers is absolutely heartbreaking. However, their parents are subjecting themselves to that situation. But do these people know what they're going to face at the border? I would assume news like that travels fast, but who knows. And if they DO know what they're going to face, all I can say is that their home country must be really fucking horrible to think that coming to the border will give them a better life.
     
  2. Kubla Kahn

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    This could have all been avoided if politicians had actually treated illegal immigration somewhere in between Obama’s enforcement and Trump’s. At some point stricter policy will lead to less illegal crossings over all.

    Call me heartless but recordings of young children crying didn’t move my needle. Equating them the Nazi concetration vamps or even Japanese internment was hysterical hyperbole.
     
  3. Juice

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    I don’t think they have any idea. The confinement in federal custody shouldn’t be a bigger issue than the over 400 plus people that died during their illegal crossing this year, or the migrant women raped by the traffickers or the people that just disappear altogether. That’s the real crisis.
     
  4. Nettdata

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    I just hate that it's all being used as political leverage.

    The number of positions that Trump's White House has taken on this subject is almost funny.
    • "It was the Democrats that did it". No, it wasn't. It was an idea that was conceived by US border agents under Obama's tenure in the White House, but it was never enacted because it was deemed too fucking heinous.
    • The whole fucking "It's in the Bible" justification bullshit. Really?
    • "It's a law that I have no control over". It's not a law, it's a policy.
    • "Here, let me fix this grievous wrong via Executive Order"... as in the thing that you have no control over?
    And lost in this is the distinction between illegal immigrant and asylum seeker.

    The vast majority of asylum seeker's play by the rules when it comes to the "catch and release" (bonding) policy... they show back up for their court dates. And yet this new policy was expanded to include them as well.

    They are choosing to criminally prosecute any adult crossing the border (zero tolerance), regardless of motivation (asylum, etc).

    Then you have the DHS spokesmen saying, "don't compare us to Nazis, we're just doing our jobs". How fucking ironic: The Nuremberg Defence


    I don't know what the answer is... I really don't... but just because you don't have another answer doesn't mean you do horrible shit like this... especially when it's being shown, now, that it's pretty fucking easy to at least detain the families together instead. "Oh, people didn't like that, so let's sign this order and stop it".

    Causing this kind of emotional trauma TO CHILDREN to send a message is inhuman. There is no justification.

    Maybe the Mexican Cartels have the right idea after all when it comes to sending messages to politicians...
     
  5. Rush-O-Matic

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    There are also plenty who are claiming asylum AFTER they've been caught trying to cross illegally. If someone needs to claim asylum, they legally do it right at a port of entry then. And, they can also do it as soon as they are in a Country that can provide safety, like, say Mexico, the country they have to cross to get to the US-Mexico border. Not to mention, the bad actors that are claiming children that aren't even theirs as a way to skirt the system.
     
  6. Nettdata

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    Sure, I get that. But "zero tolerance split up the kids" is not the answer.

    Hell, Zero Tolerance isn't the answer in schools, or for drug offences... why would it be the answer for something as life-altering as crossing the border?

    It's a complex situation that I can't even begin to suggest a solution for, I get that. But putting children in cages is not the answer. For any administration.

    It's got nothing to do with being Democrat or Republican... it's about being human.

    I'm not saying let them run free... but show some empathy and, oh, I don't know... start off by doing what they're just putting in place now, which is not splitting up families... whether they're fake families or not. Why not start there? Why start with "intentionally make it bad to send a message"?

    You put a child in a locked room with their family, they'll be afraid, tired, agitated, all sorts of things, but they'll be somewhat comforted by having their family there. You take that child from their family, and lock them up with a bunch of other kids taken from their families, and they'll be traumatized, sometimes for life.

    The number of people that are willing to try and justify that action is just crazy to me.
     
  7. Rush-O-Matic

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    I'm fine with zero tolerance, period, until a better solution is developed. No need to split up kids or anything. But, that also means no asylum hearing, no waiting on attorneys, etc.
     
  8. Juice

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    It’s actually illegal under immigration law to detain unaccompanied minors after a period of 20 days and in conditions harsher than “least restrictive.”
     
  9. scotchcrotch

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    One of my friends sisters put a huge rant on Facebook about how we need to stop helping immigrants and they need to do things for themselves blah blah blah.

    She’s in her mid 20s and still lives at home. So she’s not just a hipocrite but incredibly dumb as well.
     
  10. toytoy88

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  11. Kubla Kahn

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    Yeah I’m pretty sure, and correct me if I’m wrong, that the splitting of families wasn’t intentional to deter parents (ala the ATF at Waco) from trying to come in. It was a by product of the system of laws and court rulings during the prosecution process. The zero tolerance in prosecution was just the administration’s discretion as to how tough to enforce laws on the books. Every executive branch does this on a wide variety of issues, say like state pot law prosecutions. Again had Democrats not just paid lip service to being tough on immigration during election years (plenty of footage of Obama’s and the Clintons spewing similar rhetoric) only to vote down and obstruct anything to appeal to ethnic constituent groups. You wouldn’t have an administration trying to one up them in the other direction as hard as Trump is.
     
  12. Kubla Kahn

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    Ahh sorry I’ve been out of my news loop for a few months. I just tacitly follow headlines every now and again to cut down on unneeded stress.
     
  13. Nettdata

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  14. Aetius

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    [​IMG]

    I get that this isn't really a story, but... just why? I'm so confused by this. Is this a dog whistle to white nationalists? A cry for help from a woman trapped in an abusive and loveless marriage? Or just a teenage girl being dragged on a family trip to Colonial Williamsburg while her friends are all having fun on their dad's yacht in the Cayman Islands?
     
  15. Crown Royal

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    If that’s true then popcorn should be prepped. It’s funny how so many hate this shitty administration, yet it’s this one guy causing a vast majority the real headaches. And he’s certainly been more on-point than most people (so far).
     
  16. Crown Royal

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    Just call me Topher

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    Sure, it’s a story. That story is “All is well, folks! The swimsuit model is on her way to restore order during a crisis.”
     
  17. Rush-O-Matic

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    Those two things seem to conflict. If you get that it's not a story, why are treating it like it is one?

    Orrrrr, she's an international model-type person who likes international fashion, and Zara made a $39 jacket she liked?
     
  18. Crown Royal

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    I’m thinking it’s a coincidence and means nothing. But wasn’t there at least somebody on her PR team that thought that phrase MIGHT be a red flag, given where’s she headed and how media like fanning flames?
     
  19. xrayvision

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    D750E076-C695-4631-938D-7BDF7A2219FD.jpeg
    Mhmm
     
  20. xrayvision

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    So after the spokesperson said it was nothing and to ignore it. Trumpy retroactively gave it other meaning. Seems legit. Using his stupid wife as fodder in his battle against the news.