Rox, I think you might be reading the Littlefinger thing wrong. I think he just doesn't want to raise suspicion. In terms of actual military power, he has the Knights of the Eyrie that are very far off and not the whole Vale supports him. I don't think he can go into "Fuck you" mode just yet and start running shit. He's also not a military tactician. I think he's just trying to play the board everywhere he can play the board. I think he went to Cersei, evaluated that she fucked up and had to move the next power base.
Littlefinger seems to be mastering what is a VERY long-term plan of playing people off against each other because the Big Man On Campus stole "his girl" back in college. We all know he's bitter, he said so to Varys in the throne room years ago. It all seems to be some sick fetish to put himself into Ned Stark's shoes.
Yeah I think Littlefinger is still on top of his shit. He seems to be playing all sides against each other and seeing which comes out on top. He still has to act like he's subservient to people he's playing. I think it's pretty obvious Cersai isn't a great tactician on really any level. Most of what she's done has ended in disaster for the whole universe it seems. All of her family's power was having Tywin in control behind the scenes. Im guessing he's going to have her back until he doesn't. Please tell me GRRM doesn't make her a tragic figure to root for like Jamie once she gets a POV in the books. Another question for the book readers. I know the show has deviated a lot but are the events basically caught up in the show for the last two books? I know they were supposedly the same events from different perspectives. Im wondering how much Ill spoiler if I just read the next two after the season is over.
Read the books KK. You won't be able to catch up to where we're at if you start reading the books. Nothing really will get spoiled, because it's a bunch of side characters and misdirection until halfway through book 5. They're still hitting most of the larger beats in the show, the only thing that's drastically different is Sansa, and the only thing ahead of schedule so far is Tyrion getting to Dany.
I too enjoy hating Cersei and need not one reason to pity her. It high time for her to suffer and cry perhaps have a brick dropped on her face. At least in the bloody mess afterwards her hair will finally match her eyebrows. Jesus, that's drove me crazy for half a decade. Dye your brows to match your head. You're the friggin' queen, not assistant manager at Sun Coast. WatchingTyrion meet Dani is like watching a crossover episode of two different shows because besides the endgame both stories share, their settings and plots could not be more different.
I think you guys just have very low standards for your sexy diabolical masterminds. For real though, I'm actually annoyed at the fact that the writers have said the whole Ramsay/Sansa thing is going down because Littlefinger doesn't know how evil he is. He's a fucking Bolton. They flay people for a living. It ruins the idea that Littlefinger knows everything, that he's playing everything to his satisfaction. The fact that Sansa, one of his chief playing pieces on his board of fucked upness, is being mistreated so heinously would be a HUGE oversight for Littlefinger. I don't think it makes any sense whatsoever. The only redemption will be if he shows up, pretends he didn't know Ramsay was evil, and then tells someone else that of course he knew he'd fuck up Sansa's shit and it was that pain that made her turn to him. Now if you'll all excuse me, I'll be in my bunk writing my own fanfiction.
I mean he did set up Ned to be arrested and didn't foresee Cersai being unable to control her maniac sun from killing him. Not like he was above mistakes. It does seem farfetched he wouldn't have heard from his spies that Ramsey was exceedingly cruel to women. He could be using that to his advantage and will come in all white knighting. He was obsessed with Catelyn to a fault. I got the feeling in the books he was almost as hopelessly friendzoned as Jorah Mormont. The one thing he couldn't politically outmaneuver.
You all are acting like Littlefinger hasn't already made his move against Cersei. What did you think he was talking about to Olena when he said he had a "gift" for her of the same sort he gave to Cersei? Who do you think helped prompt Lancel or the high sparrow to move on the Queen Mother's past indiscretions? As far as his game with Sansa and Ramsey, I buy that he didn't know quite how fucked up Ramsey is. He knows the Boltons are creepy in general, but until recently Ramsey was a bastard of a smaller house in the far off north, so his personality probably wasn't well known in the south.
Personally, I just can't feel too bad for Sansa. She didn't know how insane Ramsey was, but she had every indication as to what the Bolton's were about, and she still decided to put herself in that spot. She brought all of this shit on herself. And this still remains the most ridiculous hard to believe plot line in the show, but since the writers have gone that route she's dug her own grave. Regarding Baelish, I don't see why the Vale would follow him at all. Yes, he's regent, but that's only temporary and he has neither claim, nor from what I understand the popularity to get all the knights to follow him.
Maybe before he was legitimized. Since Roose was made warden of the North and Ramsey his heir, even moving to Winterfell, I find it hard to believe the more prominent role wouldn't attract the attention of Littlefinger's whisperers in the city (which he assuredly must have).
He's Sansa's uncle, and if she becomes Wardeness of the North, AND is loyal to him, he can maneuver the Eyrie through her. I think he also had some talks with Royce, who does hold sway in the Eyrie, to this effect, but I've forgotten now because his plan in the show is not as good as it could be. Also, Kampf Trinker, you can't be serious? Baelish controls her life right now. He rescued her from Joffrey, he is ostensibly going to help her avenge her family. He told her to get married to a psychopath, and then left her in a bed of psychopaths who murdered her brother and sewed his wolf's head onto his body. It's not exactly like she has a choice.
The producer that made that statement about them not knowing Roose was talking out of his ass. Neither the showrunners really backed him up on that. Shit just didn't come across right and they threw up a smokescreen. Everyone knows who Ramsay is at this point. The Greyjoys are a big fucking deal, and Ramsay has the heir to the Greyjoy throne walking around a very large castle with LOTS of people as his bitch. It was also a toss away statement, but he just flayed the leaders of a prominent family in the North as well because they weren't respectful or paid their taxes. Now I do not think Littlefinger knows how everything is going to happen, and that's not exactly what he wants. That isn't chaos and chaos is the ladder he climbs to power. But I'm guessing Littlefinger (the one we want him to be, and the one the showrunners thinks he is) assumes Ramsay isn't going to kill Sansa due to what she represents and he'll get back to Winterfell in time to do what he needs to do. He doesn't need Sansa to be anything but a warm body at this point.
That's the problem though. We already know Littlefinger is obsessed with Catelyn, and the one break in his character is when he's trying to save the Starks in the first season, all for her. And we know he rescued Sansa because of that same obsession. I just don't buy that he would use her in the same way as he uses everyone else, when she's clearly HIS toy, and his ability to take everything he's ever wanted for himself. I really do think the fact that the show writers think he'd be cool with letting someone just rape her day in and day out shows a serious lack of understanding of his character.
Sansa could have tried to escape with Brienne. Or if Littlefinger does really care about her she could have refused to marry Ramsay. Then again, given how he killed her aunt I'm not so sure just being related to Catelyn really means that he cares all that much. I know he pretends to care, but he lies to everyone.
I doubt for a second Lysa's death brought any tears from Sansa, considering how jealous and unhinged Lysa was. I'm willing to bet that Sansa even saw Lysa's death as a bit of short-term relief. To Sansa's point of view, Baelish has done nothing but protect her and treat her like the gallant white knight that she wishes she could have. If she thought Brienne could save her, she would have left. All she knows is that Brienne wasn't around when her mother had her throat cut. I'm trying to understand why Baelish gave up a huge piece in Sansa to the Boltons. I know the potential military value, but the Bolton's have to worry about Stannis's army and the very real possibility of their populace rebelling. If Ned Stark's bannermen had an inkling that the ostensibly last living Stark was unhappy being Ramsey's battered wife, don't you think they'd march on Winterfell to save her? The entire North knows that the only reason why Roose is Warden now because he had a hand in the killing of Robb and Catelyn. I don't believe for a second that Ned's bannermen aren't looking for an excuse to stick Roose and Ramsey's head on a pike while the Dreadfort is razed to the ground.
Maybe that's why he gave her to the Boltons though. If he gave her to some other house then you likely have the majority of the north joining forces with Stannis to get the Starks back in power and the Boltons are easily crushed. Alternatively he holds onto her and they still rally behind Stannis to get the Boltons out of power. He doesn't seem to care who wins so much as he wants to see them do damage to each other. Sansa evens the odds. His plan thus far still doesn't make much sense to me. He can lie and position all he wants, at the end of this he still needs people behind him, not someone else. I don't see how that happens under the current circumstances, which is why I think what he has been doing in the books makes a lot more sense, but still doesn't quite fit. I just hope the writers don't do some sloppy half assed excuse for hoards of noble houses suddenly supporting him.
See I don't think Littlefinger ever wanted or needed an actual army behind him as a means to foster power. He's succeeded thus far being the arbiter behind the scenes. He's climbed simply by making alliances and dealings for everyone else. Thus making him the ultimate string puller. Tywin was much the same and held much of his power because he knew how to foresee and make the best political alliances, the family's gold just made it that much easier inserting themselves into places of power. I agree with Roxanne, it seems way out of character for him to give up Sansa given his obsession with Catelyn. I think it could be argued that giving her to the Bolton's knowing she'll be mistreated thus rallying the North behind Stannis. Though I think ultimately it would be better for him to let Cersai and Tommen remain the "leaders" as he could can have much more influence over them than he could if Stannis ended up on the throne.
This is why I find his desire to be the Warden of the North so flimsy. First of all, what a shitty time to be in that position. Baelish isn't an idiot, he shouldn't want to be king of a ruined castle in the face of winter. So why that's ostensibly his goal right now is beyond me. I would understand a behind-the-scenes-playing-everyone-against-everyone, but marriages are such a trump card that I can't believe he'd play this one so soon. I don't normally complain about the writing, but if this doesn't have some massive payoff, I'm going to be very grumpy as I continue to watch the show because I love watching Aiden Gillen have a mustache.
Tywin absolutely needed an army behind him. His two biggest accomplishments were defeating Stannis at King's Landing and bringing about the downfall of house Stark at the red wedding. He sure as shit wasn't going to beat Stannis without one and Walder Frey was never going along with it without backing from a strong military. If Baelish ever wants any kind of power that isn't flimsy and fragile he's going to need one. Being sneaky only gets you so far. I think Baelish wanting to be warden of the north makes some sense at least. It's more than he has right now, which is basically a regency with a short expiration date. It's just the pretext that the Vale will go to war for him that I find silly.