I meant that as an expression, not what I necessarily believe. I'm saying it would be an interesting way to play with the audience's expectations, much like how Ned Stark's death was. I hate Joffrey too like everyone else, but it would certainly be interesting if he learned to be more like his grandfather. Seeing as his mother has let him do whatever he wants up till now and he's just become King, that probably won't happen. He's liable to be even more of an asshole, really. Well, until he ends up pissing off the wrong person or Tywin ends up viewing him as more trouble than he's worth and has him killed. Just my predictions, at any rate, as I've started reading the second book. Should be fun to see what that little shit gets up to before someone takes care of him. Until then, he's the Eric Cartman of Westeros, but without the charisma and brilliance, so I'm looking forward to see what he does.
I lost interest in this message board after LOST ended. Since then this show has become my new obsession. I got the idea to come back and see if there was a thread, and whether it was as good as the LOST thread. You haven't disappointed.
Basically, the Riverlands aren't counted as a seperate kingdom, they get folded in with the Eyrie I believe. The Iron Islands get counted as a separate kingdom even though no one really gives a shit about them. I think it has to do with how the areas were ruled before the Targaryens united the whole land if I'm remembering correctly. To those who are new to the series: don't worry if you don't recognize anything about the bottom three kingdoms. They will take on importance as the series continues; to date they haven't really been mentioned much.
The Riverlands were part of the Iron Islands when the Seven Kingdoms got conquered by the Targaeryans.
I have not been on TIB in a while but I figured with an excellent show like GOT available there could be a pretty interesting thread. Then I stumbled on this post. Joffrey is not cool nor is he powerful. What you need to realize is that Joffrey is a spoiled, pampas little boy. I have no idea what you think he is trying to succeed in, he has no strategy and has no idea what his mother and grandfather are even planning. He has no ball's he is a pathetic wimp who has never been held accountable for anything. Guys with balls don't threaten to tattle -tale because they got smacked. (buy a dwarf no less) He's not a scapegoat, everyone hated him long before he killed Ned. Now fan's just want him to come to a violent death. Maybe when I return in 8 months you will have written a post on why you think Robin Arryn is the most skilled warrior on the show.
To be fair, I may have been trolling just a tiny bit just so we wouldn't have a whole bunch of pages about how much Joffrey sucks. He is a little shit, true, but just writing about what a dickhead he is doesn't do much for the discussion and doesn't really talk about the implications for the plot in the future. Besides, villains make things more exciting. And so far, it's been pretty refreshing how mysterious, callous and effective the antagonists in comparison to the protagonists, who seem to be struggling and reacting at every turn. You usually don't see something ballsy like this on television. If it weren't for Joffrey's horrible decision to kill Ned Stark, well, we wouldn't have much of a story, now would we? And the Lannisters don't even know that Jaime has been captured, so this is certainly going to make for a great finale. "Scapegoat" was bad wording on my part. My point is that he's meant to be an object of hate for the audience/reader, his whole reason to exist is to spur the protagonists into action. Sort of like the purpose of Viserys when you get down to it was to be a deluded fucking nut and help along his sister's character development. No question that neither Viserys nor Joffrey have any particularly positive qualities, of course. I think that Joffrey fulfills the same function that Viserys did for Daenarys: he's the guy that's going to force Robb to step up and fill his father's shoes, allow Sansa to shed her childish fantasies, and to finally set this war into full gear. Much in the same way that it's exciting to see how the protagonists adapt to the villain's moves, I'd like to see how the villains here adapt too. Is Joff going to take some lessons from grandpa Tywin on how to properly exercise his power and become a savvy, ruthless player? Judging by all the stuff you've mentioned in your post, probably not, but it would be fun to see.
Spoiler The dragons look awesome. I am so excited for the rest of the series, I can't wait until we see them get bigger and fuck shit up. I don't know what I'm more excited for now: the new season of Dexter or Game of Thrones. I'm leaning towards the latter.
Anyone want to chime in about the scene with Maester Pycelle? It's been years since I read the book and I don't really remember it in the book, yet the fact they chose to include it makes me think it must be relevent to something. What am I missing/forgetting? One of the underrated bonuses of shows like these (GoT, Rome, Sparticus) that take place in a historical setting is that all of the tits you're shown are natural.
I don't have much to contribute in terms of substance - I saw part of an episode a week ago, then found out the season finale was today and binge watched the first 9 episodes starting yesterday at 6pm. As someone who was exposed to the Game of Thrones world through the TV show, would you recommend reading the book series as well or would that ruin some of the suspense? How closely has the plot mirrored the book? For example, the first season of Dexter followed the book pretty closely but deviated at one or two key points - has that happened here?
Being just fresh off reading Book 1 for the first time, no, that wasn't in the book. But it certainly was relevant, because it shows that Pycelle's frail old man persona is just an act and that he is aware that the whore he was fucking is in Littlefinger's employ. He's just feigning senility to fool Ros. I have a few minor quibbles with that scene - don't get me wrong, that girl has an awesome body, it's just that they've used the old trick of weaving in exposition through sex scenes several times now, and it's beginning to wear a bit thin. Other than that, fucking amazing. What an ending to the season, I got chills down my spine on a few occasions. @ mekka: Being that I was in the same boat as you and I picked up the book not long ago, I'd suggest doing it anyways. It fleshes things out a bit better in terms of lore/background history as well as character motivations. Text as a medium is always better at conveying that sort of thing, so it gave me a more nuanced appreciation of a few characters that I had initially only seen in the series. However, in terms of chronology and events, the first book and the series have been very similar. It's a pretty faithful adaptation.
If you can do it, I would read the books after or as you watch the show. There has almost been a 1:1 match between this season and the first book as far as major plot points are concerned. But there are quite a few things coming up in what will hopefully be seasons 2 and 3 that will just be more awesome and harder hitting to watch on a big TV in HD than to read about. The books are not only a great source of more detailed information and fleshing out, as was said, they're great period and should be read in their own right. It's just the way they've handled the first season makes me wish I was coming into it completely fresh because man it's just so fucking good and it only gets better. Pycelle: He was fooling Ros to fool Baelish, but also to show them that he thought well of Joffrey, even though we know he's now clearly too smart to do so. He's managed to both fool everyone and get them to not consider him any kind of threat, so it should be interesting to see what the writers do with it from here. And goddamn, that poor minstrel...what a way to start the show.
I had thought that this series didn't have too much in the way of magic and the like, that for the most part it was going to stay pretty realistic. Clearly, I was wrong, Spoiler as girls walking into fire and coming out the next day with dragons is not something you see in everyday life. Also, every scene with her should require she not wear a shirt. Was this picked up for the next season/book? [edit] Oh, guess it was picked up after the first episode. Cool.
My only issue with last night's episode is that it was the Season Finale. Jesus, I can't wait for season two. I really am a huge fan of the books and was just waiting to point out how they fucked it up translating it to the small screen. Boy, was I wrong. The whole season was fantastic, one of the best series I've seen in a long time.
They really are holding true to the books. The entire finale was excellent, and the last scene blew me away. To anyone who has not read the series, I strongly urge you to do so. You'll itch for the next season so much more after doing so, but to me the series is made that much more exciting by seeing what I've already read translated so accurately and faithfully to another medium. Seeing and hearing what you've read makes it come alive in a way that, at least for me, is difficult to acheive with books, especially being stuck in speedread mode. Given that the entertainment industry has a habit of taking a work from one medium (comics, books) and shitting an awful alteration/condensed version onto a screen, this is incredibly refreshing. A Song of Fire and Ice is a great series to begin with, but half the value of the TV series is again in the accuracy they've held themselves to. They're not so much adapting a book into a series as they are writing an 800-page book on a screen. Call me a fanboy (I have the pant stains to validate it) but I'm really excited by the attitude they've taken toward this because of how much it shows in the quality of the results. My only complaint is that Daenarys, unlike Shae, is not available for my viewing pleasure on Xvideos. Oh, and major Spoiler I want a damn dragon. As chilling as their growl as now, wait until they're even half-grown. It will sound like the Gates of Hell being wrenched open
Yes, that's what I took away from that scene as well, I was wondering if there was more to it than that.
I took it as this: Maester Pycelle is a guy who has managed to survive through multiple upheavals and yet retain his position and power base regardless of the situation. He serves as a power behind the throne and his loyalty is basically for sale to whomever is most likely to win and make things most comfortable for him. King Aerys is killed by Jaime, his entire family is slaughtered, yet Pycelle still ends up serving as an adviser for the man who led a rebellion against the Mad King. King Robert dies under suspicious circumstances, now Pycelle is firmly in the Lannister camp. And if the Lannister family is brutally torn to shreds by the Baratheons or the Starks, no big deal, he'll just bet on the winner and pledge himself to whomever takes the crown. The times change, but no matter who sits in the throne, Pycelle will be whispering in their ear. Also, I thought it was a nice way of relating things back to the history of Westeros before this current conflict. Unlike the violent deaths of a lot of major characters that will likely occur in the next book/season, I think that the only way Pycelle is going to die is of old age.
Actually this isn't really out of the norm; the Maesters are accepted to exist outside of the political realm, so it's normal for a maester to keep his position through a change in rulership. If I remember correctly the way it works is that leaders request a maester from the Citadel (the Maesters' headquarters), who then decide who to send, so if the Citadel decides that the maester you have is the man for the job there's not a whole lot you can do about it.
I watched the finale again just now and it was even better. Some of the things that blew me away were just small little facial expressions- the way Maester Llweyn looks at Bran when he comes out of the crypt, or the way Tyrion looks at his father when he says, "you're my son". Very impressed with the acting.
A perfect example of how reading the books also enhances the watching experience. I was actually waiting for that moment to see how well Dinklage could act out Tyrion's inner monologue that was in the book and it was PERFECT. I was pretty underwhelmed with the first 2-3 episodes, but now I'm firmly in the awesome camp.