How did Sansa not question how quickly Littlefinger knew of Joffrey's death? That should be a dead ringer that he was in on it to some degree. Unless I'm missing some obvious plot point with a messenger or something. But she went directly from the wedding to the boat and he was waiting there.
Tywin wants Tyrion dead, he has for some time. Lets not forget he threw Tyrionnonbthe front line for war in season 1. And Tywin has personally told Tyrion he detests him. I guess it's obvious Littlefinger had partly to do with Joffrey 's murder. If so, bully for him.
Well the girl has not ever been terribly bright and prone to whimsical tales, which is why the fools story of redemption for a fallen house drew her in hook, line, and sinker. She'll figure it out soon enough Im guessing. He's been absent quite a while on the show but having an escape plan for Sansa that soon after the king's death is highly suspect. Poisoning the king seems like a big risk just for Sansa, which is why I think he only had a hand in it. I wouldn't be surprised if Vary's had a hand in it as well, he seems more like the sort to go along with it if it helped protect the realm.
I don't think Vary's would have a hand in the murder. He loves the realm, but I think is too intimidated by Tywin. Littlefinger no doubt DID have a hand in it, considering that speech he gave Sansa at the end of season 2 about letting her mother down. Who is now dead (masterminded by Tywin) and who Littlefinger was in love with.
Except Joffery's death highly benefits Tywin more than it would for Littlefinger's revenge you suggest he is getting on Tywin. Not saying Balish wouldn't take a big risk, whisking away a prime suspect is a huge risk, but a little too big for revenge alone. I could see him having helped Tywin but also planning Sansa's escape under Tywin's nose. Tywin knew Joffery was a psychotic ultimately uncontrollable little shit. I think Vary's would only have had a part in the killing not the driving force behind it. Even though he knows and fears Tywin's ruthlessness I could see him helping out to stabilize the kingdom. Im sure he knew as well as Tywin that having a more pliable king who wasn't prone to bouts of tantrums and torture would help everyone in the end.
You very well could be right. Joffrey made that crack at Tywin about @Hiding under Vatasalay Rock" or whatever it's called that made Tywin's irises turn black. And Tywin seemed to almost be hiding glee while talking to Tommin about being a king (that was yet another awesome Charles Dance scene). Dance just OWNS it every second on screen. He seems to be getting the lead role so far this season which I am fine with, because even though Tywin is a fucker and I hate him I also find myself half-rooting for him because of how charasmatic and in-control he is.
Ok, I had a post that was all like "WAHHH this guy is supposed to do this, this guy was supposed be like that in the books!" but no one gives a fuck. Except to say, this one whining thing. Spoilered for those who don't care, not actually spoiling. Spoiler In the books Jaime and Cersei see each other for the first time in the sept. The other scene where she shoots him down after giving him the hand doesn't happen. Also, its way less rapey, its more of a "I'm mad at you for not being here to defend our son. Wait not here, just not here" turned into passion/hate sex. Its also told directly from Jaime's point of view, so that could color it too. This is definitely going to make it harder for Jaime to be the ambiguous hero Jaime later on. This was a great episode, and I love what they're doing with Dany. Daario's scene was so fucking badass, I enjoyed it the most. Dany's scene next week should be fucking epic unless they blink forward the fun stuff they hinted at the close of this episode. I know there are certain characters you guys hate and/or don't care about, but everyone on this show is a chess piece. They've cut out at least 40 characters that are prevalent in the books. They all matter in the big picture. Just pay attention so when the pieces start to play on the same board, you know why.
This is why I watch the show alone. I don't want people asking me a thousand questions during the episode. This is one of the few shows I watch by myself.
Yeah my one friend who has read the series made strict rules that his girlfriend not ask any questions while the show is on. He's also put a no talking rule in place for his roommate that will usually do a running commentary if left to his own devices. I share his need for fucking silence during shows. I know this shit is a little more complex and filled with dozens upon dozens of characters but if you can't figure out what's going on by the dialog and what's presented on screen, or just cannot wait for the plot to play out and answer your questions, you need to watch it with someone else.
FutureWifes cousin stayed with us last weekend. She watched the episode with me (had never seen it before and barely paid attention) and said "OMG! That poor kid is choking!"
Yup, and this was partially my fear - and goes back to the age thing - about the adaptation of the books to tv. The series is definitely less recognizable at this point. My gut tells me 2 things are going on: 1) These books are over a decade old. I suspect Martin, like any other writer, given enough time believes that you can always improve through editing. And it appears he's still editing. 2) You really only have 2 female leads in this series: Cersei and Dany. By aging Dany in the tv series, she will start to look a bit of a bumbling fool (as opposed to just young and naive) in future episodes. One guess I have is that in order to maintain a somewhat likable strong female lead, you need to humanize Cersei. Unfortunately, in so doing, several plot lines coming will take on a completely different shading. Given my further guess that 'Feast' and 'Dance' will be done simultaneously, and probably over 3 seasons, you're going to run out of female leads that fans will identify and root for (if you followed the book faithfully), I think the show is attempting to bridge a gap that exists with female characters over the next couple of seasons in order to keep female viewers. Overall, I still love the series, but it really is starting to become an alternate take on the books. Not a bad thing, necessarily, but I also worry that since Martin is working on the final two books, he is using the show to foreshadow events that will take place in those books. The tv show is giving him an opportunity to rewrite certain things in order to not look like stuff is coming completely out of left field in 'Winds' and 'Spring.'
I agree with you on the concerns about the shows affecting the books, but not the strong female leads part. Arya, Brienne and Sansa are all strong female characters in the books, and with a little reworking their stories can all be told throughout the next 3 seasons (I think 'Feast' and 'Dance' will be covered in two seasons with portions of 'Feast' moved to this season). I also think "that" scene has more affect on Jaime's character arch than Cersei's. Especially considering how innocent they're portraying Margeary in the show as compared to the books. Cersei's story line can remain the same, while adding another reason for her to be distrustful of everyone.
Please stop straying into the next books, we have a thread devoted to that. Though they haven't been translated perfectly I'd still say the writing for women characters on this show is leaps and bounds beyond the average roles women are given in television programing. Id say Anna Gunn had some legitimate gripes when she tore into the roles woman are given and the insane fan reaction to them. Cersai and Millesadre are the two most evil/bitches of women I can think of but even with them there are shades of grey. Most of the rest of the main female characters are very strong. Ayra, Dany, Catelyn, Sansa, Theon's sister, Brienne, Robb's wife, the Tyrell women, the list goes on and on.
I dunno if Martin was behind some of these changes or if the writers think they know better than what happens in the books (they don't), but some of the more recent changes are negative. I don't understand what they're trying to do with the rape. While Jaime hasn't completely redeemed himself, he's much more relatable, until he decides to rape his sister in a church next to their dead son. Maybe they're going to use the incident to set up Cersei's redemption? That's kinda like trying to make Joffrey redeemable though, and is folly. Here's GRRM on the scene, from his (not a) blog. <a class="postlink" href="http://grrm.livejournal.com/367116.html?thread=19030284#t19030284" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://grrm.livejournal.com/367116.html ... #t19030284</a>
It's easy to think that there are less strong female characters, but I think they're outweighing the males at this point. Tyrion, Jamie, Bran, Jon Snow and Fatboy, Davos, and (sort of) Theon are the ones with their own storylines and perspectives being shown. Cersei, Margery, Sansa, Arya, Dany, Olenna (to an extent), Asha (or whatever they changed Theon's sister's name to), Brienne, Mellisandre (Stannis's viewpoint has to be counted as hers, really). It's a really well balanced show. But yeah, I was confused that they changed it from "Not here, not now, well, yeah, ok, give it to me, brother" to a straight up rape. I thought the whole point of the Jamie character was to go from boilerplate bad guy douche to relatable, evolving, shades of grey morality. Incest, yes, but in a completely faithful, true love kind of way. Kills folks, sure, but for his family, because it's his job. Now they've made it so that his main redeeming feature, his twisted but pure love for his sister, is dirty and violent and violating. I don't understand why that was necessary. Plus, come on. Do you really think Cersei is the kind of woman who would allow that kind of thing to go unpunished? He is hugely fucked now.
I don't know how you could have watched the show, let alone read the books and think Dany and Cersei are the only strong lead characters. Maybe you're sticking with current story for the sake of conversation, but come on. Yeah, and George RR is not going back and rewriting anything. He's not changing shit. His whole thing is to not change shit. You will see in the credits which episodes he wrote and he damn sure uses the exact same dialogue as he did in the books.
I think Olenna is the strongest female character. She's probably my favourite character on the show. She is iron-fisted and talks rings around her co-stars without showing the slightest fear in anything. And Maergery obviously feeds off her wisdom as she is also fearless and confident.
She is definitely the most consistent in her fearlessness and confidence. I still liked Dany the most from the first season/book because there was a very clear growth of confidence and character. Since the second season though she's kind of fallen of for me. Then Ayra would be my second favorite girl from the series.